Duncan had a trademark on “yo-yo” in the United States until 1965 when the courts found in Donald F. Duncan, Inc. v. Royal Tops Mfg. Co. that “yo-yo” had become part of common speech.
Papa’s Toys still has a trademark for “yo-yo” in Canada.
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My mistake, I always thought it was Duncan’s trademark in both countries. Good to know, thanks Nathan.
How in the world did we start talking about patents from a thread about debating the most American company?
Because ADD.
because every thread in the general forum is either one of the handful that is just constantly reposted (some form of “what is your favorite X” or “something something hype”) or a discussion in which people are encouraged to give their opinion on something that quickly devolves into an asinine argument about something completely different. sometimes both.
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Of course all that is to be expected from our friends Duncan=Love Lawsuit.
The U.S. is just lucky Duncan has been around long enough so that their “yo-yo” trademark expired already.
That trademark should never have been granted…Ducan didn’t even invent the yo-yo. They just bought it from Flores.
The worst company in the business is also the largest. But that’s usually the pattern.
Hahahahaha I want some custom FHZ caps with that on it or a tee shirt or something
I’m glad I don’t know enough about the ugly underbelly of the industry that gives you guys the
right to talk junk about Duncan. I’m probably so old that I was brainwashed in the 60’s. But the other problem I have trying to not like Duncan is that they have working for them or with them some of the
nicest people I have had the pleasure to have met over the years, and with out a doubt the best
teachers. I learned more about how to throw and how help new yo’ers from Duncan folks than I ever did
from reading stuff in a forum. Duncan does = love. You shouldn’t confuse trying to stay in business with not loving you. It’s just tough love.
Because the Patent issue in yo-yo is a uniquely American one. If you read the posts, you will find out why. America grants patents much more easily than most other countries. More importantly, America has treaties (forced or not) that stipulate that patents granted in one country must be recognized by the other (US, UK, Germany, …).
This has distorted the yo-yo market to the point that some of the best yo-yo’s made; can’t be sold here without paying a shakedown fee to American companies who have not innovated anything other than a patent filing in an American court that outlines something simple such as first-year physics masquerading as “innovation”.
That makes the holders of those patents that are preventing industry progress (Duncan, YYJ…) true symbols of American yo-yoing. These companies do not; or have not innovated using their issued-patents. Instead, their patents stand as barriers to others trying to innovate. I call that symbolic of the American yoyo industry. Like it or not.
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No doubt I love Duncan for all theyve done and all that, but I hate how they restrict 5A. That is all. I said I want it on FHZ caps so I could put them on a non Duncan yoyo just for the irony of it.
Their low level staff, Duncan “crew”, etc., are probably nice people, but that’s the case with most companies. You don’t encounter the pervasive “banality of evil” until you meet the higher-ups: people who actually make these decisions.
I don’t know which people you’re talking about because you didn’t elaborate, but it’s statistically improbable any of them were involved in the numerous lawsuits, deceptive marketing practices, monopolization attempts, etc., that characterize Duncan today.
Care to list a few? Gonna need some evidence to back up your claims after all.
you guys are embarrassing yourselves, or would be, if you had any brains.
And how am I embarrassing myself by asking for some evidence on his claims? And I don’t have any brains? That’s funny. I bet if I lost half my brain, I’d still be more intelligent than you.
#Rekt
LOL, I was thinking the same thing. My IQ is probably at least three standard deviations above this guy, statistically speaking.
Anyway, it’s fair to ask for evidence. I just figured this stuff was wellknown. Here’s the result of an hour or so of research + some personal opinions.
Lawsuits
In 1962, Duncan sued Royal Tops Manufacturing Company for calling their yo-yos yo-yos. They also sued Dell Plastics co. merely for having the word “yo-yo” on their packaging. They lost the case, went bankrupt, and were bought by Flambeau Inc. Henceforth when I say Duncan I mean Duncan or its parent company.
In 2007, Duncan threatened to sue yoyowiki.org, a nonprofit, for using the words “butterfly,” “imperial,” and “freehand” in describing yoyos for informational purposes. The word “freehand” is not even trademarked.
Also in 2007, legal threats were sent to Greg Cohen, owner of Infinite Illusions et al., for the same reason.
Also in 2007, legal threats were sent to Jaco Greeff, owner of Radiyoactive, the first African yo-yo company, who closed their store as a result.
In 2009, Flambeau sued Hunter’s Edge LLC for patent infringement. It was settled out of court so I can’t confirm this one is yo-yo related.
In 2010, Flambeau sued Wildgame Innovations LLC for patent infringement. Couldn’t figure out what for, settled out of court.
In 2010, Duncan sued Razor USA LLC for making a yoyo with response pads. I can’t figure out if they won or not, but they must have lost otherwise there would have been hundreds of similar lawsuits, I imagine.
In 2010 Duncan sent legal threats to Yoyofactory over their 5A May videos and use of “spin top buttons.” Yoyofactory took down the videos and stopped giving away the spin top buttons as a result.
In 2013 Flambeau sued Primos Inc. for patent infringment. May not be yo-yo related.
This was what I was able to find in about 30 minutes. There’s probably more.
Deceptive Marketing
This is much more subjective, and as I find virtually all marketing inherently deceptive, there’s not a lot to add except that Duncan is the best at it. They started with the “If it’s not a Duncan, it’s not a yo-yo” lie. Whenever their sales were plummeting they’d put out TV commercials. This one is pretty famous, Video Boy. Here Duncan markets the Wizzer, which they didn’t even invent. This one is pretty funny, but ends with the statement “Duncan–anything else is just a toy.” They make statements like this in all their commercials, always trying to reinforce the idea that “if it’s not a Ducan it’s not a yo-yo.”
They’ve also launched marketing campaigns that yoyos teach physics and sold tens of thousands to educators. Then of course there was the “Duncan=Love” campaign when nothing could be further from the truth.
But mainly I have a problem with their general attitude that Duncan=yo-yo. They market their designs as innovative, and some of them have been, but mostly they just buy out other companies or patents and then make them their own.
They also steal ideas when a buy-out isn’t necessary. The new Duncan Torque, and the Strix before it (but especially the Torque) steal designs from yoyomonster. The Torque has an IDENTICAL profile to the 3-step mixed straight design of the Checkmate, and has the same diameter:width ratio. They added an IGR which can be found on other YYMs, but check out this comparison from the side. Guess which is which.
Monopolization
Throughout Duncan’s history they have attempted to monopolize as much of the yo-yo industry as they can. They did not invent the yo-yo, not even in the United States. Pedro Flores invented the yo-yo. Donald Duncan formed a rival company a year later and bought out Flores and trademarked “yo-yo.” They didn’t have much competition until the 1960s when they sued and lost over another company using the word “yo-yo.” Ironically, the company they sued was started by a former Duncan demonstrator, and despite winning the case, the legal fees bankrupted Royal as well as Duncan, thus killing the yo-yo industry for years.
They’ve bought up numerous competitors over the years like CameYo, PlayMaxx and all its patents, and the popular spin top Wizzer. At this point they’ve given up monopolizing the yo-yo industry altogether but they still try to monopolize parts of it. They bought out Steve Brown for practically nothing and have greatly hampered the growth of 5A in recent years. Their patent doesn’t expire until 2020.
They don’t allow any company to sell counterweights without paying licensing fees. Let’s think about that. What is a counterweight? It’s any small handheld object with a hole drilled through it. It’s not rocket science. It’s not even science. It’s “shop class” at best. So nobody but Duncan can release yoyos designed for 5A, that come with counterweights. And Duncan has only designed a few counterweights, which mostly suck. The only good counterweight available is Yoyojam’s Takeshi Dice, which costs way more than it should because of the licensing fees.
Besides monopolizing the counterweights themselves, Duncan monopolizes 5A play itself. Only Duncan can film 5A competitions (where the patent applies anyway), use the term 5A or freehand, etc. And since yoyos from other companies can’t be advertised as freehand/counterweight/5A, said companies have less motivation to design yoyos geared toward 5A players, and only do so when it’s a signature throw of a famous 5A player. I wouldn’t be as PO’d about this except that Duncan has done next to nothing with its patent in the last 10 years. They released the Freehand Zero and a couple variations like the Throw Monkey and Flying Squirrel but the only metal yoyo made for competition level play is the Barracuda, which isn’t really designed for 5A specifically but comes with a counterweight and works reasonably well.
Ok, that was a lot more lawsuits than I expected lol
Pedro Flores didn’t invent the yo-yo, he developed the twisted string that allowed a yo-yo to sleep. The yo-yo itself dates back to Ancient Greece.
I meant “in the United States.” I thought that was clear given that you can find “United States” if you look over about a centimeter to the left of “Pedro Flores” on your monitor. And he did invent the modern yo-yo in the U.S., and Duncan bought him out. Why I am debating this with you? It’s history.
BTW most historians believe the yo-yo in its earliest form was first developed in China, not Greece, although the ancient Greeks did develop yo-yo like toys.
EDIT: I might be losing it but I think I saw Steve Brown in the “Give us the Finger” commercial (guy with the mohawk?). Anybody know what he looked like back then?
Yep that’s Steve - why would that be a surprise?
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