O’s are garbage.
Better to just send them all to me and Ill take care of them. (by loving, and squeezing, and throwing them everyday till I die!)
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Big fun is kinda an O shape that is extremely fun. I love mine to death
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There is a seasoned veteran yoyo player posting in this thread. He has no vested interest in saying he thinks people should start their yoyo journey with a yo-yo that responds to a tug, he just believes it to be the correct way. There are undoubtedly numerous subtle reasons he’s suggesting this, things that lots of newer players just wouldn’t get yet. I think it’s silly for just about anyone that’s posted in this thread to suggest otherwise. Almost none of us have the high level contest experience and yo-yo experience in general that he does.
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I also think it is silly that every new yoyo player should train like they are going to become pro one day. It’s a toy for having fun. If I wanted to be a competition player or be the very best that no one ever was, id gladly go to boot camp. Funny thing is that I actually own and throw responsives regularly, and am quite a fan of fixed axle play. I don’t think anyone is flat out denying his advice; just that they quite honestly don’t want to follow it.
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About the time I started modding yo-yos about 20 years ago; Mark was already a sponsored player.
I’m not gonna tell anybody that everything he says is in the Bible. Because I am not at his level of yoyo expertise.
But Markmont ‘is’ one Badd man🤔
And he knows ‘some stuff’…
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One doesn’t have to aspire to be a competition player or be the very best to benefit from the seasoned veteran yoyo player’s advice.
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I respect his advice, no doubt. I get the whole “bad habits die hard” sort of advice, but in the end I pick up whatever yoyo I feel like and jam with it. Im not training for anything, and if I want to sloppily learn a trick above my level with a 1A yoyo, im going to do it. I have already said on here that I dont do much front-style because I dont find it fun, and im not going to learn them unless I want to. Seriously, no disrespect, it’s just that some of us here have a different opinion when it comes to having fun with yoyos.
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It lerrnt speling bye juzt skipin ahed and not lernen da bazics proply. Ther woz no point. I juzt wonted to get strayt into sentensez.
Look at mee now!
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Totally agree with the control aspects in your post. I remember when the Parlay came out, a lot of people were saying that it really needed a centering bearing to make it more stable. I tried that, and I felt it sucked the life right out of it!
I was thinking something along these line as well, for when the OP says they seem so similar. There may in fact be many that are similar, but people don’t necessarily own most of the yoyos on those lists. They own a few and a maybe one is a favorite. So when you see a bunch of people posting up those lists, it’s a cross reference.
I felt like the Grail was pretty similar to the MMC, so I traded it for a 420. I had wanted the 420 in the first place, and I preferred the MC to the Grail. (There, I used both abbreviations!) I think people often weed down their collections, or if they have similar ones, they’ll gravitate towards one or the other.
I’m a bit confused about where this sentiment came from? Reading over the posts, I didn’t get the feeling anybody was being defensive.
Maybe just this?
I wouldn’t let that distract you from all the good points in the post.
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Aaayyyeeee 
KUDOs due to YOU for abbreviating the ‘MC’ PROPERLY - respect
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You can definitely thank @zslane for that! He’s been on a mission! 
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Oh you missed the whole discussion on that one… 
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The idea of “best practices” pervades every corner of modern society. So it’s natural to assume that there’s a spectrum of “best practices” for yo-yo design, yo-yo technique, and yo-yo aesthetic.
For whatever reason, everybody seems to understand that the last one is subjective; that certain things look or feel good to certain players. But sooooo many players (especially new players, but not exclusively) dogmatically assume design and technique to be on a more rigid scale.
It’s why I get frequently get question “Why would you rather play wood than metal - unresponsive long-spinning metal yo-yo’s are BETTER!”. Really? Do they Kickflip better? Shoot the Moon better? There’s a latent assumption that every yo-yo and every player is striving to climb a podium - literally or metaphorically. But not every car is meant for Daytona and not every surfboard is meant for Pipe Masters. Sometimes the “best practice” is to FLOW.
There are a lot of ways to be good at yo-yo, and there are a lot of ways to design a good yo-yo. And the trends surrounding both of those have CHANGED over time. Being a good yo-yo player in the 60’s meant you could loop with two hands. In the late 90’s it meant something different. Now, it means something else entirely. But whenever you came up, what was “good” and the designs which enabled “good” playing informed your perspective.
If you came up playing Renegades and Freehands, the “limitations” of your tools necessitated certain adjustments - and that process took the limitations and forged them into a STYLE. A shallow player will watch Mark and want to throw what he throws because he’s throwing it. A deeper player will watch Mark and want to know how what he threw informed his perspective, and how what he’s throwing now manifests it and lets him continue to develop it.
As someone who mainly throws yo-yo’s made from dead trees, I kind of resist the term “organic”, but the love for those designs comes partly from a feeling deeper than “nostalgia” - more like a gravitation for how it felt when those were THE shapes. And it comes partly from imitation, because so many of the venerated players today came up during that yoyo paradigm and the designs suit their style. It comes partly from form, because they have a simple & clean-lined aesthetic and tactile appeal which resonates with many. And it comes partly from function, because yo-yoing will defy every attempt to plot it on a linear spectrum of “best practices”.
Sorry for the tome. This was a fun thread to read. 
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what are organic throws and inorganic throws?
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Organic throws are made of wood, and inorganic throws are metal or plastic. 
Really should be, anyway…
I took this from another store site, and removed the links to the store. Hopefully that’s okay? The shapes they call “Round” and “Step-Round” are the ones that are being called “Organic” here:
About Yo-Yo Shapes
Yo-Yos come in many different shapes and sizes, which make them effective for particular styles of play. The shape affects what kind of tricks you can do, so please bear this in mind when making a purchase.
For Looping Play
Imperial Shape
Stood on its side, the yo-yo has an elliptical shape, with a thin gap bisecting the round shape. This is the oldest and most traditional yo-yo shape, and is what most people picture when they imagine yo-yos. The shape itself is named for the Duncan Imperial Yo-Yo, which popularized the shape.
Despite its irregular stepped shape, the Hyper Yo-Yo Windorbit is still technically an Imperial Shape.
Raider Shape
This is the most popular shape for looping yo-yos today. The sides are mostly symmetrical, forming two ellipses side by side. Compared to the Imperial Shape, Raiders can also be used for some string tricks, making them good all-around yo-yos.
For String Play
For string play, most yo-yos are what’s called Butterfly shape (named for the Duncan Butterfly yo-yo). This shape is wide, giving you a large catch zone to land the yo-yo on the string. This makes even simple tricks like Elevator that much easier to execute. All of the yo-yos you see below are Butterfly shape; if nothing else, this introduction will show you just how much variation there is within a single yo-yo shape.
Round Shape
The simplest name for the simplest shape, it fits easily into your hand.
Pictured: Duncan FH Zero
Straight Shape
Another straightforward name, for the straight line drawn from the response to the outer rim. Straight bodies do a better job of keeping the string from rubbing the yo-yo, causing sleep loss.
Pictured: YoYoJam PHENOMizm
Step-Round Shape
Looking from the center, the straight shape suddenly “steps” into a rounded rim. This combines the comfort of round with the sleep loss benefits of straight yo-yos.
Pictured: Turning Point Leviathan2
Step-Straight Shape
The straight shape takes a new angle, stepping into a polygonal second profile line. This helps push weight outwards for various reasons.
Pictured: yoyorecreation Sleipnir
H-Profile
This shape has a very distinct stepping, and is easy to spot in a crowd. When you hold it, your middle finger will naturally fall into the gap, giving it a unique feeling favored by counterweight players.
Pictured: YoYoFactory Genesis Throwback
Inverse-Round Shape
A new concept opposite the traditional round shape, sleep loss is reduced greatly as the string only comes into contact with a point on the body, rather than an entire face.
Pictured: YoYoJoker DoubleJoker
Flat Rim Shape
Flat rims are described as rims wider than 4mm that lay parallel to the axle. This unique shape cuts into the trapeze width (catch zone), but it gives impressive spin to the yo-yo.
Pictured: onedrop Markmont Next
Pictured: YoYoFactory MVP
A Word on Shapes
Yo-Yo names and shapes are far from standardized, every place may have its own vocabulary to describe yo-yos, and makers have their own terminology as well. This page is meant just to introduce you to the variety of yo-yo shapes out there, and not to preach to you one name over another. However, we try to stay consistent in the way we refer to yo-yos here at ******.
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The pictures of the last two do not seem correct to me.
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You mean they are not the yoyos stated? The Markmont Next is definitely wrong! I think the MVP is correct.
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The Phenom is also not a straight shape. The walls are curved down to the response.
They are comfortable in the hand, play well on a string, and are yoyos. What’s there not to like?
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I am glad this got made into a separate thread as it is one of the most interesting discussions I have had the pleasure of reading since I started using this forum, especially all the input form Markmont himself! 
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