Ben, you can call me Chris if you want to address me personally. I am keeping it civil and just explaining my thoughts in my posts, I am not out to attack or try and catch you in a “gotcha moment”. I didn’t know the yo-yo in question was 100% made in the US, I am big enough to admit that I was wrong. Your tone during this whole conversation has come off as quite combative from the start which is not helping your cause at all. I completely understand your passion for your company but the way you are going about it at the moment is not putting that company in the best of light.
As for your Japanese collection. Instead of threatening to cancel it because you are not liking the comments here you could maybe talk to one of the manufacturers that are located in Japan and work with one of their shops. I think it might go a long way to be able to announce to the world that your Japan Collection was “machined to the highest standards in the same machine shop that makes YYR’s products”. Call me crazy but I am betting there are several here who would be tripping over themselves to get one of those.
You do realise that was a rhetorical question, not an actual threat? Of course he’s not going to cancel a complete run of yoyos because of a heated discussion on a yoyo forum.
People want great yoyos, and alot want great yoyos at a great price. And then there’s those who doesn’t understand that mass producing great yoyos in the USA is expensive, and either complain about the yoyos being too expensive, or if not too expensive, complains about them not being 100% made in the US. With the cost of machining things in the first world it’s simply not possible to offer 100% US made Shutters at the price of 45$. Atleast not if Ben wants to make any money at all doing it.
Anyways. The machining quality found in China is now completely on par with most machine shops found in the US. Actually, most of my smoothest yoyos are all made in China. (TP Shake, Shu-Ta, New Superstar)
Im sorry Chris but that was a rhetorical question. We have no intention of canceling the production, or making it economically unaffordable to the majority of our customers.
The USA collection was intended to be a celebration of yo-yoing in the USA. It contained a mix of made in the USA and made in China product. It contained signature yoyo from American, Mexican and Japanese players. The yo-yos were designed by Americans, Japanese and me (Australian). It was a melting pot like the country it represents.
Japan collection same deal. We have a great team there, we sponsor all the major contests there including the upcoming world yoyo contest. People will I hope understand we cannot make new tooling for protostar and loop1080 there and we find no benefit to the geographical location of a machine shop to the quality of the work it puts out (despite your, I believe correct, observation there may be several people who do disagree with this view).
Guys, seriously??? You think I don’t think I can spot a rhetorical question? Only an idiot would actually cancel a release based on a heat conversation in a forum. Even though it is rhetorical it doesn’t mean a person cannot posit a solution to said rhetorical question.
AS for the America Collection, I was under the assumption it was created “to focus on Team YoYoFactory USA. On the packaging it commemorates the fact that they have walked away from the National Yo-Yo Contest with a US National Champion on their team every single year since 2004. Celebrating ten years total including this year with Tyler Severance winning 5A.” That was what YYE had to say on them in a different post. Again, if I am wrong I am big enough to admit it.
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That is completely false, there are several companies that are making high quality, low cost yo-yos completely within the US. I will not name them as it would be unfair to do so in a thread for a different manufacturer but if you did a little research you would know that those companies do exist.
Personally It has never been a issue of quality for most people I talk to about it. All of your fancy gadgets and probably most things in your home are made in china and I think that is becoming an accepted standard.
It mostly is an argument of jobs and revenue not staying within the US. The fact of the matter is that people (Companies) who produce products for consumption, do so only at a profit. Other wise they would be considered non-profits.
Some companies choose to employ workers and suppliers within their own country at risk of losing profit while others outsource labor and materials to make the company more profitable.
YYF is a great company that makes a great product.
Company “X” is also a great company that makes a great product, however company “X” only produces yoyos in the US with US workers and materials.
There’s a reason no one knows Company “X” and thats because it is extremely unlikely for a company who sells a commodity, yoyos for example, to be competitive when everyone else is doing the same thing YYF is doing. Its common place now, and its only going to get worse until labor laws and regulations get better in foreign countries. Businesses dont care about being patriotic or supporting their own country, they care about profit margins.
EDIT: I also realize that there are people in between who do kind of a half outsourcing thing but I was just trying to make the picture clear. Theres nothing wrong with how YYF runs, they have families and mouths to feed too. We cant all be non/minimal-profit companies.
lol rant over. Im sure that there are plenty of exceptions but not enough to really make an impact.
Feel free to dispute this though, this is just my view on it.
I love Chinese produced yoyos there the best they play great for a great price. I’m sure most people would rather buy Chinese made merchandise because of good price. Most things now are designed in a country like the US and produced in china because every thing in the US has changed to producing physical products to designing them. The whole first world country economy has changed.
Yes, I accept that when the comment is made by mature, thinking people, and agree that a lot of stuff we have is made elsewhere. On this board (and other forums I watch) however, I believe a lot of these comments are made by clueless 13 year olds. No offense to the mature, thinking people on the forums.
I disagree with this part. While there are other reasons, quality is the top reason people seem to have a problem, and that’s based on my reading of the board in the last several years. I know it had not been addressed much in this thread at the time of your post, but that point of view has been rampant on the board in general. Some of the people who have been posting awhile, will address it from that perspective.
The bottom line for me in all this, is that hardly anyone who buys new yo-yos on a regular basis, really cares about that “made in the U.S.A.” tag. There is a small group who cares, but apparently, they are not causing “made in the U.S.A.” marketed yo-yos to fly off the shelves. I think that, if enough buyers felt strongly about that, we could force more product to be made in the U.S.A. The fact is, that hardly anyone really cares. I think that most people put their money where their mouth is, and what YoyoFactory has done is listen to customer demands. People here in the United States want value, which is more important to them than a product marketed as “100% made in the U.S.A…in every way.” I think the small number of people pushing that “made in the U.S.A.” tag, hardly buy any yo-yos, and that’s the reality of it.
Personally, I buy yo-yos made in the U.S.A., Japan, Canada, Italy (if that’s where Oxy is made)…so why not China too? If I have a collection that is diversified in terms of where things are manufactured, I see no need to exclude China. “Made in the U.S.A.” is well covered in my collection, from my personal buying perspective. So, when I buy YoyoFactory, a company based here, paying taxes here, employing American people, offering us great product at great value, and promoting yo-yo, is more than enough for me.
When people want that “made in the U.S.A. 110%” stuff, they know where to go to get it. And, sales are showing the harsh reality. Not that many people actually care. Whether they should care is up for debate, but the reality is that they don’t care that much. YoyoFactory has to use that reality to make business decisions, and anything less would be foolish. Especially, when the company produces that kind of volume. Things have to make sense.
Also, you mentioned earlier, the argument about the condition of workers in China, and that being another reason people take issue with items made there. Sometimes I like American criticism of what people do elsewhere in the world, and sometimes I don’t. But, I have to present the other side of the argument too. Some people think it’s okay to let people, especially if there are 1 billion of them, decide under what conditions they will work in terms of wage/condition. Some people think we should mind our own business on that. I won’t get into my personal view, because it doesn’t matter. I think it all boils down to the reality that not enough people care. A business that generates that kind of sales volume must make decisions based on that reality. YoyoFactory has worked with us, and manufactured some models 100% here. But, when they look at the numbers, and what’s getting all the support and flying off the shelves, it tells a story.
No eye candy in a YYF thread would be uncivilized.
Id just like to add ‘profit’ also means ability to stay in business and keep doing what we do. We are after all yo-yo players. Im pretty sure I make less than most of my graduating class but there isn’t a single day i regret the choices I have made.
We commonly state we aim to deliver great value in our product. Be it made in China or the USA. If our made in USA product fails because we fail to deliver the ‘warm fuzzy feelings’ it will be a pity, but the minute a cloud belching factory appeared on our logo it was always going to be a stretch.
Social conscious wise we have personally conducted many vendor inspections and the days of china being an unregulated labour source are over, especially if you sell to Toys-r-us and work with major international distributors who do inspections and will check on you. The vendors we worked with in the USA when we started certainly wouldn’t pass the standards enforced on our China made product today.
Also, one our biggest markets for selling yo-yos is… China.
I don’t know much, but I know some people didn’t quite “get” the same thing out of the original post that I did. Yes, there was a bit of defensiveness, but I read it not as just a growling diatribe. More of a “Guys, you are still supporting American!” message. And the whole thing about the “Made in the USA” was also forked into unexpected directions… all Ben was saying was, “We believe that it should be 100% made in the USA to use that label, so we don’t always use it even when we are legally permitted to. However, even the not ‘made in the USA’ stuff still supports Americans!”
I dunno. People sure like to get binary in a hurry and find injury where none was intended.
I was going to say this bit I didn’t, so I’m glad you did. I suspect some folks have other issues with Ben/YYF and used this thread as an opportunity to rattle some cages.
It is amazing how this thread devolved so quickly and completely. I, for one, welcome YYFBen back to these forums. This forum is better with his voice than without.
It would be nice if Ben could post something and have it NOT turn into a drama-fest. Perhaps he would be more inclined to give us some insight into the YYF company and his thoughts about the industry if that were the case.
I value his insight far more than the constant, repetitious axe-grinding of others.
And here, he DID give insight into the company and it was still taken a way I didn’t expect.
“So here’s a cool thing you should know: We believe in the ‘Made in the U.S.A.’ label and what it should stand for, which is why we only use it when something is 100% Made in the U.S.A.”
That should’ve garnered some respect rather than backlash. I don’t get it.
Thank you for coming back to the forum. I was just a lurker without an account before you left, so I never got to say how much I appreciate your behind-the-scenes comments from a great company.
The manufactures that post and answer questions make this community better. Yourself, One-Drop, G2 and YYO help us more than you know.
Ben…
Are you here directed to speak on behalf of YYF?
Sought permission from YYF?
Or just here on your own mission?
Just curious if your views and frustrations on this topic is shared with the company as a whole, or just you personally.
Actually, I was absolutely clueless it was that Ben.
I would just expect a certain level a professionalism from someone in that position.
I.e. Not arguing with forum members.
And you can say that makes me a hypocrite because I too argue, but I also don’t own YYF lol
Well said, Greg. And I’m with Geezer. I decided to just peruse this thread and just give thank yous to those people whose point of view I connected with. I personally hope Ben decides to give this forum another chance. There are MANY more people that want him here than don’t. The volatile attitudes of some members here is disappointing, but it’s only a small subset of the hundreds of people that love to throw because we just love to throw. Welcome back, Ben.