This isn’t rocket science.
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As sad as it is I fear you are probably 100% correct.
I don’t want my last post to be misinterpreted by anyone. I don’t condone having to wait til Oct. 2nd either. I was simply relating a communication I had.
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Surely if you guys weren’t right, the silence on his part wouldn’t continue.
This is probably the most bogus thing that’s happened to the yoyo community, except maybe for the travesty of YoYoNation’s New York headquarters getting robbed blind by two teenagers.
Honestly surprised with how easily everyone glossed over the extremely delayed shipping habits, as well. Just because it didn’t happen to you personally, doesn’t make it OK. If it happened to anybody, it’s worth mentioning. If a nobody had done this sort of thing instead of a well-known yoyo co. founder, they’d be banned from the forums for scamming right away. That he got away with it just because of who he is, is a real let-down.
Thank you to those who are standing up for the community and for the charity.
As someone who has watched this thread as well as the adventures of VSNYC - I can say one thing:
Heath clearly gets more of a pass than anyone else in the yoyo community only because he makes great yo-yos. Perhaps that is part of the problem. We enable him through our desire to own future VSNYC throws that he might create.
I think the community needs to ask how they would treat Heath if he made crummy yo-yos?
Heath needs to ask why he continually tests this community’s desire to keep him in business.
Little secret: ANYONE can make great yoyos. All it takes is the desire and the funding. It’s not hard to design a good yoyo–it’s actually harder to design a bad one, as long as you’ve thrown a few good ones and can understand the very narrow range of parameters. Diameter: between about 50 and about 60. Width: between about 35 and about 45. Bearing: C or D or A, pick your poison. Weight: about 60g to 70g. Shape: well just copy the most popular shapes with a slight tweak. Aesthetics: come up with some random annodization ideas, and if it looks good go with it. Response system: stickers or flowable silicone… then… step 1, draw the design, step 2, take it to the machinist and step 3, pay the machinist and then sell it to a retailer. All that’s left then is a little bit of marketing, easy peasy. It isn’t rocket science, the hardest part is just coming up with the money to get started and having the passion to make it happen.
Well, very little in this thread is fair to Heath and I don’t have the evidence to prove that it should be fair…but I don’t believe the above at all. Out of the maybe 100 unresponsive yoyos I’ve thrown, only 15 or 20 really stand out as being truly great. More than one of Heath’s throws are on that list and he doesn’t make very many throws.
Maybe this is covered by “desire” and “passion”, but Heath obviously knows quite a bit and he’s at least earned the respect his yoyo designs receive. I wouldn’t write this talent and skillset off for him just like I wouldn’t for Chris at CLYW, or any of the other independents who’ve survived solely because they personally can bring something really great to the table.
But, running the business is just as much a part of the equation and it’s a shame that VsN doesn’t always seem to be backed up the way its designs ought to be. I think we’re right to have given Heath a pass but that time may be coming to an end unless things are not at all the way they seem.
Why on earth would you say that? Like i said earlier in the thread if anyone else pulled even half the stuff he has they would have been banned long ago. He’s worse than most blatant scammers imo because he keeps the lies going for literally years on end thanks to his standing and has no shame. Even before all of this charity stuff it was obvious to me he was an all around not great guy. Whether it’s malice, or just laziness i don’t know, but making people wait half a year just to mail a yoyo? And then shipping it in an envelope like a 12 year old child on the B/S/T would do? Just embarrassing.
Also my Skywalker was vibey and meh, and my Ti Walker was overhyped, overpriced mediocrity that has since been surpassed by so many other throws, no need for anyone to have a VS in their collection.
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I only got to play a skywalker once, and it was a first run “works”, i must say it was the worst thing I ever tried, came straight from the box playing horrible responsive as heck, vibey and pretty much the only thing good that came out of it was the colorway cause it was good eye candy. I agree anyone can make a great yoyo. No one shouldn’t get passes off of that alone. unless you Ben from yyf or something lol
Making a great yoyo or not has nothing to do with it. I personally liked the VsNYYC throws. But this still shouldn’t give him a pass. I think part of him getting a pass was him owning the company. Part was the idea behind the company was donating to charity, and he seemed to be a nice guy, so people didn’t want to believe all the negative things. Also, every time he would get called out about the crap he was doing, he would make temporary amends, and it would satisfy people for a while. Then he would go right back to the shady stuff, though. I agree it took way too long for all of us to hold him accountable. The important thing to do now is to not back down and to not have short memories.
Also, this isn’t the first time the community has acted like this. Look at RecRev. Their yoyos sell just as well as they always have, but it’s common knowledge that Alex Kim scammed tons of people. We need to teach the community to not put someone on a pedestal just because they make good yoyos or have some skill.
Thank you for clearing this up LJ. This isn’t a bunch of random people teaming up against Heath for some random reason. People with extremely good intentions (everybody that donated and/or purchased one of these yo-yos) have been wronged here, and I think they deserve an explanation.
I vividly remember this cause being introduced… and I really really hate to say this, but, I’m actually glad I decided to stay away from this whole project. I hope that is the only time I ever say something like that about a charity event. The longer this has gone on, the more awkward it has become. All of Heath’s other shortcomings aside… this really was a simple project. It didn’t need to take 2 years. And it really didn’t need to come to this.
I agree with pretty much everything posted on the last few pages of this thread (particularly those posts by flyguy, jrod, david, and vega). And I have been following this charity auction that Heath set up since it’s inception (if I remember correctly, this donation was initially supposed to be made before the end of Dec. 2010… that’s not a typo… 2010). I have nothing invested in this project, yet somehow even I feel like I got the wrong end of the stick on this one.
If it is true that Heath pocketed the money (seems reasonable to assume this), I completely agree with the idea of severe punishment. I personally will never buy a vsN product again… and I’m not sure I will ever want to throw my ti-walker again. Maybe I’ll just go spark the crap out of it until it’s a piece of dust.
[quote=“throwgoon,post:630,topic:20991”]
If you truly feel that way about the Ti-Walker a better use of it would be to sell it and donate the money to the American Cancer Society.
As for the whole situation, I agree that it is sad that it has come to this. As an outsider who only donated column width for news on the Project I don’t feel the same level of betrayal that the product donors and people who paid high prices for not just a unique yo-yo but for a worthy cause. At this point transparency needs to be shown. Receipts need to be provided detailing not just the amount donated but when it was donated as well, showing that he did make a donation in the past and corroborating that he did just lose the receipt. I would guess that many are justifiably upset at the possibility that Heath used the money as a personal line of credit. I will reserve personal judgment until Oct. 2nd when Heath said he will provide the proof everyone is asking for. Unfortunately I see this whole thing being a huge blemish on Heath and VsNYYC, no matter how positive the resolution may be.
Y’all do realize Heath can EASILY end up in, you know, jail, right? This isn’t just a “well, ban him from the forums, don’t buy his yoyos” thing. This is fraud. The right action has to be taken by the right people and this dude wont ever do this again.
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Agreed. Make no mistake, this is some serious stuff we’re talking about here.
I don’t think anyone is taking this lightly. The fact of the matter is that there are a lot of factors in place and quite a bit of behind the scenes issues that we are not privy to. Unfortunately we are all on the outside watching and drawing our own conclusions on the matter without all the facts. That being said, you are correct. There are some serious legal ramifications to all of this if there was fraud involved. For that reason I say we give Heath the time to at least bring his proof to light and show that he did make a donation in the past to a cancer focused charity. Wait until Oct. 2nd and see what he brings to the table.
I’m a little disappointed this thought hadn’t crossed my mind before.
You are exactly correct Saintrobyn… this ti-walker will be much better off in the hands of another capable thrower. No sense in sparking it recklessly ‘just because’.
If anybody is looking for a ti-walker, please check out my b/s/t thread:
I am auctioning off #29 to the highest bidder. All proceeds will benefit the American Cancer Society. I will be donating all the money I make to the ACS. I hope to be able to give them at least $200… it’s not much, but it’s more than nothing.
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^ that’s really cool of you dude. If I didn’t have one already I would jump on that in a heart beat. Still debating it lol its a really good thing your doing.
What a great guy you are throw goon…thats really awesome…
Goon, you are a gentleman of the highest order. I hope your Ti-Walker goes for an exorbitant amount.
I can’t wait to see you post the receipt when you donate so that we can all see the final tally of how much went to the ACS. It is a shame that controversy has caused you to part with a yo-yo you love to play but it is great that something good is going to come from it.
Man, Im quite shocked to see all of this… One part of my brain still doesnt want to believe it… Heath always seemed nice but had sooooo many problems shipping and handling private customers.
Lets hope for the best: that he will actually deliver proof.
Hypothetically speaking: What would happen if Heath doesnt provide proof 2 weeks from now? I mean sueing and all that jazz… How WOULD everything be handeled? HYPOTHETICALLY
P.S.: throwgoon you are awesome!
I don’t think there’s a need for speculation here. Let’s just wait and see what happens.
Thanks for the kind words everyone.
This isn’t about me. It’s about all of us. Without all the other yoyoers out there, I probably wouldn’t be able to enjoy all these spinny doodads that I’ve accumulated (well, at least all these new fancy metal ones). It takes consumers for producers to thrive.
I love yoyoing. I will continue to invest in this niche industry to the best of my ability. The only real ways for me to do that are: to directly support the companies I feel are good for this community, to spread the joy of throwing, and to be an active member and sharing knowledge in this growing online forum presence (albeit minimally on that last one).
I like the Ti-Walker as a yoyo. But I can have just as much fun with any of the others that I have. I just wouldn’t feel right carrying it around and, inevitably, showing it off to some amazed onlookers.
There’s been a few bids already… hope to raise as much money as possible!
(edit- and yes, I’ll be happy to share the receipt after the donation is made)