K, i guess this needs an actual response. Your assertion that there’s some unspoken rule between yoyo retailer and manufacturer that means it’s the retailer’s responsibility to handle defects is ridiculous, and that’s a great way to ensure that fewer places want to resell your products. This is why when you buy flat pack furniture and lots of other home products there’s giant lettering telling you to contact the manufacturer with any issues and NOT the place you bought the item, as a few complaints and returns to the store and suddenly they’re not making money anymore and it’s not worth the hassle.
Also to act as if designing yoyos or handling customer complaints is an either or proposition is silly, it’s not like sitting at the computer in front of a CAD program designing a yoyo is a 40+ hour a week job. My guess is that most of our favorite yoyo designs have only a couple hours into their design total. Obviously logistics, packaging, shipping etc. take time, but i’d feel confident saying that customer service has never been a large impediment to getting a new yoyo out in a timely manner. Also there’s a big difference between a manufacturer responding to a message about a legitimate pulsating vibe or other real issue, and the real time killer, which is children messaging them asking which yoyo is the best, when will XYZ be released, why is their bearing loud and responsive, etc. If a manufacturer is genuinely bogged down with legitimate complaints, well then that might be their issue to worry about.
In general… in general mind you… a defect discovered immediately after receipt of the item from a retailer is processed as a return to the retailer. The retailer is then the interface between the customer and the manufacturer. There are whole processes in place for dealing with customer returns. If I buy some flat-pack from Target, open the box, and one of the boards is snapped in two, you better believe I’m bringing it to Target. And I guarantee you that their customer service department will accept it as a return and not tell me to contact the manufacturer. They will then send the paperwork back to the manufacturer along with the item (if it makes sense cost-wise to do so) and will be reimbursed.
A defect that becomes evident over time and is covered by an explicit or implied warranty is usually handled by the manufacturer, not the retailer. If my flat-pack from Target crumbled to dust after 3 months of use, they will probably tell me to contact the manufacturer and would be within their rights. “I bought this yoyo about 3 months ago, and somehow it developed pitting all over it!? Is that normal?” is something a manufacturer would handle. The retailer might put the customer in touch with the manufacturer, but they would not be expected to issue a refund.
This isn’t strictly black and white stuff, as some of it will be case-by-case… but the delineation between “received defective” and “crapped out later on” is pretty obvious.
In the case of a yoyo that has a defect upon receipt, it strikes me as obviously the domain of the retailer. At minimum they can provide contact information and other details on how to get it resolved. More likely they will say, “Crap, didn’t mean to sell you a bum item… send it back and we’ll get this fixed.” In the case of a problem I had with a YYF yoyo once upon a time, André forwarded my information to YYF and they then contacted me directly. This was a totally appropriate response brokered by the retailer and ultimately resolved by the manufacturer.
In our small community, it’s usually “fine” (and is pretty easy!) to go to the manufacturer, and you will likely get positive results (especially with YYF!) but I would hardly call it the default action for an out-of-the-box defect.
And, you knew you’d get a good response too. Speaking of ridiculous, I think it is ridiculous that you don’t quite understand the role of the retailer, and what services they are supposed to provide. The manufacturer, many times, will send all of it’s available stock out to retailers. So, there is less chance that an item requested by a customer can even be fulfilled by the manufacturer. This is yet another reason why the retailer should be contacted first, to resolve an issue with a defective product. The retailer is more likely to still have more stock (especially in a given color) on hand. Who is the last one to still hold onto product, the manufacturer or the retailer? If you answered correctly, the store is the last one to hold onto it, so it makes common sense to contact the one who is most likely to still have the thing you want to exchange. You buy from Store X, and if you need an exchange, it is more likely Store X has the same thing in stock, in that same color. A lot more likely, than the manufacturer still having it, whose job it is to get product out stores.
In fact, in business, retailers do not overreact to product return or exchanges as you suggest, because in business, things can happen with any product. They are reimbursed for those kinds of issues. That is why you see product recalls on major brands, because sometimes things happen. No one stops selling the major brands, they just handle it in business and move on. Either there can be a dud in production, or things can happen during shipping. So, there is no guarantee that any defect even occurred in the product due to the manufacturer. You contact the retailer, and they will inspect the item and determine whether it may have been a mistake on their end with shipping, or if they want to get reimbursed from the manufacturer it can be worked out. That is not the buyer’s concern about whose fault it is.
The buyer should simply want either another item or money back, and that is achieved easiest with the retailer. Why would a yo-yo company want to refund you, when they don’t have the money you paid? Why would you think they can better facilitate an exchange, and have that specific item in that color on hand, when their job is to push product out to stores, not sit on it and have it waiting for people to complain about something?
We are not discussing furniture, we are discussing yo-yos, so things should not be taken out of context. But, even in that case, I guarantee you that if I bought furniture from a furniture store, and it is defective, I will contact the store I bought the furniture from to facilitate a return/exchange. They took my money from me, so it makes common sense to contact them to get it back. I would not be contacting so and so wood shop and bothering them about the furniture. In the case of an exchange, I received something directly from the retailer, so it makes common sense and business sense to go to the source that provided it to me in the first place.
Your guess about how long it takes to design a yo-yo, generate a marketing plan, get them tested, packed, approve artwork, budgets, fill orders will retailers and the list goes on, is exactly that, a guess, and nothing more. It is minimizing the tasks that manufacturers have in front of them, that causes people to bypass the retailer, who took their money, and who sent the yo-yo to them, and contact the manufacturer instead. If a manufacturer states that preference, that they would rather handle their own customer service, it’s a different story. But if they are dealing with retailers, they usually want to reap the benefits of doing so.
The next time I see posts bugging manufacturers about release dates on yo-yos getting pushed back, or coming too slow, I’ll have to link to this thread. In yo-yo, and in this proper context, many consumers are children. Most people who identify problems with their toys are children. And, they need to learn who to contact first when there are issues with their yo-yos. People who buy furniture are usually adults. That is why we must put the discussion in the proper context. And, this is why I get all riled up about the whole “analogy” thing.
So, for all the children out there, if you buy a yo-yo from a retailer, and there is a legitimate issue with the product, you should contact the retailer first. Now, I never said the manufacturer was off limits, but they certainly should not be the first point of contact for these matters. On that point, we do agree.
The bottom line here is if you have an issue with a product that you have purchased, contact the retailer you purchased it from - That’s why we are here!
Depending on the industry they may tell you to contact the manufacturer for a return but as far as yo-yos go - If you receive a defective product that we sold, we want to know about it and we will handle the return.
This whole thread was started because someone received a terrible customer service response from an unnamed store and was forced to settle their issue with the manufacturer. That’s it, and that’s the end. YoYoFactory handled the return for them and it is all taken care of.
Please put an end to furthering any argument here.
Well, since that’s pretty much the end of that, lets get down to the Space Cowboy itself.
What are people’s thoughts on it that have managed to pick one up? I would have thought that there would have been a little more buzz about it since it’s bi-metal and what not, but I’m not hearing much…
Anyone that has bought one that is able to give their impressions on it?
It is an excellent yoyo with a sleek look, an amazing grinding finish, and incredible stability. If I had to pick one yoyo to compare it to, it would be the OD Valor in terms of play characteristics. The main area of difference to me is actually in the response. The Valor starts of a little bit tighter on binds, while the Space Cowboy leans more towards forgiving an extra string layer or two. They feel different in the hand but both are comfortable. Other than that, in a blind test (if such a thing were possible with yoyos) you would be hard-pressed to feel a difference.
The Space Cowboy really is an excellent yo-yo. I like it a lot and the bi-metal weight distribution just feels perfect - My opinion may not sway too many people but I can say that since André got one I haven’t seen him throw anything else!
I was very excited to try my first bi-metal and I can report I have really enjoyed my Space Cowboy. It has been a ton of fun and I love the look of the stainless steel rims against the black aluminum. And the graphic artist in me really likes the spaceman on a horse and cowboy on a rocket graphics. It has been my primary throw since I received it on September 26.
That said, going back to the original concern of the OP, I have to admit I believe my Space Cowboy has a definite vibe which exceeds what I experience with most of my other throws. I readily admit I’m not the guy to ask to lift the bonnet to check the plugs and points, but in my feeble fiddling about I haven’t been able to “tune” the vibe out to any appreciable extent. Now I’m also prepared to acquiesce to the notion the primary problem is in my throw. However this throw seems to have a more acrimonious relationship with my throw than most of my other throws, if I could just throw that out there.
It is definitely hard for me to get a smooth throw from it. To tell if the yoyo is truly smooth, though, I just put my finger into the gap for a few moments and it evens the spin out. My Space Cowboy is one of the smoothest yoyos I own. I know somebody who owns one, though, who had to “tune” his with axle placement as well as using the right bearing before he hit that sweet spot.
It’s a absolutely awful shape… super awkward to throw. Took me a minute or two of playing with it before I could get a consistent smooth throw, but once I did it’s easy enough. Not exactly what I’d call forgiving of your throw, and it certainly is different to throw than most anything else… but once you get it it’s fine.
