Unless it’s just kickback manifesting itself differently. Like, if you tend to throw way out to the throwhand side and arc all the way around, but instead it goes straight down, that’s just shifting the same phenomenon that I’m talking about (I expect mine to go a LITTLE to the right, and straight down, but instead it goes to the left).
Everyone’s “standard” throw is different, so we might be talking about the same thing.
But if it goes straight down because it unwinds too fast and thunks at the bottom, that’s just a loose bind. Kickback is characterized more by it unwinding SLOWER than expected vs. faster. So it really just depends on your description of just “how” it is going straight down.
Nope, actually it’s not about the timing when to let it go, it’s just a simplistic way of saying it.
Kickback is basically leverage physics, closest to gears specifically. I already said it multiple times, when you pedal a bike, it will have certain resistance, heavy gears have more resistance than lower gears. Yoyos “resist” when thrown too, otherwise they will not spin. Zero kickback translates to zero spin.
To explain it in the somewhat “wrong way” just so you get the idea, let’s simply say that the string is 1 meter long, and let’s say the yoyo with less kickback will rotate 50 times over that length to the bottom (not counting the sleeper). If we change the yoyo gap wider so that it rotates 60 times over that 1 meter, it will obviously require more power to translate that same 1 meter to 60 times rotation, it will have more kickback, otherwise it doesn’t make sense that you can get more rotation for no more power?
Just like a bike that goes 6 meters for one full pedal will have more kickback than if the same bike goes 5 meters in one full pedal.
The unwinding of the string translates to spinning momentum. More kickback means less unwinding length for more momentum (could be either higher rpm or more rim weight), which makes it feels heavier.
If kickback doesn’t exist, then cars don’t need changeable gears.
This one is slightly different but may help explaining the idea, the rim weighted cylinder goes slower even though he released it at the same time. He can compensate by letting it go earlier, but the whole point is about how weight distribution affects the way it accelerates, not whether the timing is wrong. www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB8GNQuyMPc
Also, I think kickback the same concept for 1A and looping, but is controlled differently.
In looping the gap and sting length are the major factors for kickback control, but in 1A it’s bearing size or rim weight.
I think it is more noticeable for BiMetals because they tend to have more rim weight.
Either way, kickback is based off of how much the yoyo resists it’s initial rotation.
The same rim weight that makes it stable once spinning, resists rotation in the first place.
Yes, I think you are misunderstanding kickback, Glen.
Kickback is fact and physics. Float is perception and subjective. Clearly the one that’s an actual physical phenomenon HAS to be the less ridiculous one, no?
But more importantly to the assessment that you’re “misunderstanding” it is what Morgoroth said. Letting go later would make it far worse; possibly unrecoverable. His bolded part says it in the simplest terms: the yoyo’s resistance to initial rotation.
It affects not only trajectory, but the amount of time it takes the yoyo to hit the end of the string. All quantifiable real things. And in my case and apparently others (though not nearly as many as I would have guessed!) it messes with muscle memory enough that it feels awkward. I wouldn’t bother owning a throw with too much kickback simply because I have other options.
As identified by Morgoroth loop angle is the same thing.
Rim weight, axle/bearing diameter, YoYo Diameter, Gap width are all design elements that can be manipulated overcome(?)/Balance/influence the stated phenomenon(?).
Yeah, that makes sense.
At the risk of being picky though, I would say it compensates for kickback, instead of canceling it.
That’s my plan to deal with it too. Once I get a throw that has some.
I’m anticipating/hoping for it on my first bi-metal since it means that it will probably have more rotation and stability in the long run. Or at least a manageable amount of kickback if that makes sense…
YYFBen - it would be interesting to have a demo of the space cowboy for example without the steel rings. If you threw that, and then one with the rings I would bet you would notice a lot of differences
Most of the bi-metals I’ve tried don’t have more kickback than I prefer. I have a Pulsefire and Rave (also a 2014 SS Genesis, but the steel ring isn’t in kickback zone); had a Rapid; tried a broad range of bimetals the same weekend that I most recently said, “Yup, there’s that Draupnir kickback…” even immediately before and after the Draupnir, and I can’t say any of them gave kickback that I couldn’t tolerate.
The one other yoyo I remembered that I own that has some “displeasing for Greg” kickback is the H5xChief, but only when loaded with a thin string. With a thick string it’s manageable.
TL;DR – just because you get a bimetal doesn’t mean it will have kickback.
All this time I thought kickback referred to when you have a bad bind and the yoyo shoots back at you on the next throw. Oops.
I think a lot of what you guys are describing has to do with one’s experiences. When I first got into yoyoing, consumerist insanity overtook me and I bought dozens of yoyos, and was constantly alternating between them. So for me, compensating for the different weight distributions was a fundamental part of yoyoing, and though different models certainly feel different to me, I couldn’t tell you what specifically I’m doing differently from one to another. With regards to throwing at least, I reckon it’s the opposite; my technique itself evolved around accommodating different yoyos.
Either way, kickback is not part of my reality. I imagine it’s more a factor for people with strong spec preferences, or people who spent their early days with one or two “main” yoyo.
It’s a part of your reality… caring about it isn’t.
I definitely went right into having tonnes of yoyos before I could even play. So it’s not that for me. I still play tonnes and alternate between them a lot. The most likely explanation is that like many of us, you just don’t often come across a yoyo anymore that has particularly strong kickback.
True. I’ve always found it to be primarily gap size that influenced it. Of course this could be because it’s the easiest to adjust if need be. Rim weight, axle/bearing diameter, YoYo Diameter are all pretty much fixed for a given design.
Played with my first fixed axles today, and I found something that made me think of this thread. I throw the fixie like I would throw one of my 1A’s and it went 45 degrees forward! Went to throw i back down, and it did it again! Tried to deliberately throw it straight down, and it launched 45 degrees forward again. It made me LOL and Ive been meaning to post about it here, . . . . .so I did.
It felt like the opposite of kickback (which I am familiar with) just made me laugh. I did get it ironed out, but still wanted to share.
