I think Werrd just gave the yoyos very deep bearing seats. I’ve never owned a TFL, but that’s how my 4xl is.
Hey… You may be right… I still have a few brand new 4xl’s in my Shop. I will get one out later and see if the C bearings are actually a step narrower in width and stacked or just 2 standard width C’s combined with deep seats? Thanks for bringing that up. It’s been a few years since I messed with that model. And when you have several hundred yoyos; sometimes I defragment and put seldom used information in hyperspace, haha.
Kickback is definitely a reality. It is not necessarily a bad thing; some like it, some don’t. Kickback doesn’t have a huge amount of variation, so I have never had a much of an issue with any yoyos; I can adjust to it in a few throws.
I’m not a big modder, but I once beefed a speed beetle; indeed, there is a much larger amount of kickback in it than anything you’ll get stock. It sorta makes the discussion seem silly (only sorta).
Note there is an opposite to kickback; it’s the feeling you get when you use a thick long string on a thin gap. That belongs in the same class as kickback.
The physics of kickback are not very complicated. AP physics will cover anything you need to know for most practical purposes.
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Whoah, man, whoah! I didn’t say anything aggressive or confrontational. You’re absolutely right that anything goes and that it should always be more than just “yes/no” or conversations would be hella boring. We can all discuss whatever we want… I didn’t mean to imply that you should stop talking about the Draupnir… it’s ME who was talking too much about it, mainly because I don’t have your breadth of experience. I needed to remind myself and anyone else who cared (maybe you, but also others) of the original question. 
You just happened to be in the conversation at the time.
You have no enemy in me!
what would people think of a reasonably sized full plastic with kickback
I’d say the same as I said about the G&E 4 - It probably needs to be fixed, which a narrower bearing did for the G&E 4.
I didn’t think you were talking too much about the Draupnir. I don’t think there is some kinda 50 word limit on personal case studies or even fleeting experiences with somebody else’s yoyo. If the yoyo is being mentioned because it’s function seems pertinent to the topic; then it has value.
I’d like to think we all don’t blend into a conversation to identify who is correct. I’d like to think that by a number of us sharing information about a topic that we can form a conclusion as to what is correct…cause/effect/solutions/alternatives/etc.
I don’t believe there is such a thing as too much information.
We all learn from each other. Every subject we ‘hash out’ makes us a little bit wiser.
As long as we yo-yo, we are all traveling down the same road. We are just taking turns moving obstructions to the side of the road.
Notice now and then how many views a thread has received. Then notice the number of people that have posted replies in threads. You can have a thread with 11 total posts but 1100 views. So one percent are talking and 99 percent are watching. The majority of people registered on this board, seldom if ever post.
I consider this to be a predominantly constructive forum. We learn from each other and ‘they’ learn from us… and so it goes…
I have no enemies on this board. Just a few haters. And I don’t even consider them related to enemies.
They are just ignorant and seem to enjoy being stuck in a rut of ignorance.
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I still don’t really understand what kickback is…
Watch the video on p1. Even though they’re illustrating it on a front throw, it applies to any throw. Apparently the nature of a breakaway minimizes the perception of it for some people, though the physics will still be intact.
^^ I’m very, very picky about the yoyos I play and the way they feel when they wind / unwind. I’ve watched the video on page 1 and read this entire thread multiple times…and I’m still not entirely sure what people are referring to with the term “kickback”.
Agree completely.
Draupnir on my throw has that low angle feel (if that makes sense) but I feel that is because it is tightly wound and is slower to unwind (again, if that makes sense).
Edit- Seems that the perceived fix for kickback is a wider gap. Loose bind? I wonder if opposite things are being considered as the same.
Signed… confused. 
Wider gap will increase kickback, not reduce it… to the point it doesn’t bind anymore, in that case it would slip.
I think it’s a lot easier to see this effect is with adjustable 2a yoyos and try different settings. Loopers are sensitive and even slight starburst wear is noticeable. I have a pair of old fireballs and another pair new, the older one have to be cranked further because the starbursts have worn out a bit (3-4 years) but really they are not too visible. There is slightly less kickback on them on regular throw that doesn’t really make a difference, but when looping that small difference is actually big to the point I have to adjust quite a bit when playing one after the other.
^^ So… are you saying that kickback is essentially the same thing as low response / string slippage? If so…why didn’t someone say that on page 1…
Just the opposite.
Yes.
Because that’s not what it is.
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Im confused that people are confused over this. . . hahaha
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No.
The closer the gap, the less kickback you get, the yoyo becomes somewhat lighter to throw.
The wider the gap, the more kickback you get, the yoyo will seem to “fight back” more when thrown, as if it’s heavier while it isn’t.
At certain point the gap will be too wide string won’t bind anymore, it will slip. At this point, the yoyo is not even playable to begin the discussion with.
Do you have a bicycle with changeable gears? it’s the closest I could think of, heavy/high gear is like more kickback, you need more power to pedal as if the bike is heavier while it’s not (the pedal kicks back/resist more), and light/low gear is like low kickback, the bike feels as if it’s lighter (less resistance).
You will notice that at certain condition, you want certain gear, like when climbing uphill you don’t wanna use heavy/high gear, it’s like yoyos with too much kickback, and you also don’t wanna use light/low gear for downhill because you have to pedal too fast. However on flat land some people prefer slightly lower/higher gear, because some like to compensate having to pedal faster for lighter feel and some like to pedal slow but heavier. It is all about preference, same for yoyos.
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Kickback seems like another vague title like floaty and solid. That’s not going to stop people from using it, though.
It’s not, though, Owen. The fact that people are confused isn’t actually evidence that the term is vague. It’s a very specific term with a specific effect based entirely on physics. It’s specific and not subjective.
Sometimes people just don’t know what a term means or they have misused it. That doesn’t mean the term is without merit.
“Floaty” is subjective. There’s no way to scientifically prove “floatiness” because all scientific attempts will show that yoyos fall at the same rate regardless of their weight. But we still use the term because somehow a combination of light weight (or at least low size:weight ratio) and mid-to-center weighting imparts a different sensation on the throw and on the string. We call it “floatiness” but it can’t be quantified.
Not the case with kickback.
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rizki_yoist and Greg are nailing it 8)
This bicycle thing makes a lot of sense.
I hadn’t thought of gears until you made the analogy.
Do you find this to be the case with 1a and looping?
It seems like it would be something that is more apparent/important in looping than 1a.
If gap is that big of a deal, has anyone tried an adjustable gap yoyo to see if they could test this more scientifically by controlling for more variables?