Oh, for sure. I was really only referring to the veterans around here.
What “veterans” do we have around here? 
Sure there’s a lot of people here that were playing in the 90s or 00s but how many of them were EVER at a competition level(this is what I’m assuming you meant by veteran due to previous context)?
Mark? Ed? That’s all I can think of off the top of my head.
There’s Colin but he isn’t constantly talking about playing responsive or bad yoyos
Many of the older players here don’t and have never played to push boundaries and seriously elevate their game, they just play for the fun of it
You do get that most of the people reading these posts aren’t going to get to a competition level right? If I tell you that I think playing with a responsive yoyo to start will likely help you later this isn’t my way of saying I can make you world champ. It’s an observation I’ve made.
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Just recently got into “organic” unresponsives and im not even that good. I like them because they are smooth, good with regens, feel good on the return, and seem to encourage more laid back play. Being difficult to do complex combos is just one aspect of it, and one aspect that I don’t/can’t indulge since im not good. Would I rather learn tricks on my VTWO? Yea. But id rather play with my Icarus.
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I’m not disputing that playing responsive can make you better. I’ve said the same thing before and am also an advocate for starting out responsive.
I just think when people defend responsive or organic/undersized yoyos they exaggerate how much benefit you can actually get from it.
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Agreed. There was that topic recently where some dude started off throwing unresponsive couldnt throw a clean breakaway, but in general if you practice hard you will get good, no matter what you use.
My input is that it 100% helps to start out responsive and that you’re avoiding a lot of trouble later on by doing so. I think yoyoing smoothly and naturally comes a lot quicker from starting responsive as it doesn’t let you get by with sloppy play while learning fundamentals.
That being said I don’t think that there’s a lot to gain by going back to playing responsive if you’ve already developed a smooth playstyle that doesn’t look jerky/unnatural.
And as Andy said, someone being a “veteran” is not indicative of skill level, and I’m not close to top tier competition level but I did compete and I was sponsored so I’m by no means not skilled enough to have my input mean nothing.
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I use “veteran” as a nice way of saying “old timer”, someone who has been around the yoyo scene for a long time (even if not continuously); long enough to fondly think of organic yoyos as nostalgic. I don’t mean it as a synonym for competition-caliber player.
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I haven’t read through this thread, I’m sure this has been mentioned a ton…
But the main reasons I like organics are nostalgia and the way they feel in hand.
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The same way people can enjoy other shapes and that’s acceptable and justified, why is it such a stretch for many to enjoy an organic shape w/o receiving the perception that its routed in nostalgia…?
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So… Do you not like fun?
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This is also a silly assessment, because I’m only two years deep into this hobby, and pretty much everyone knows where my preferences lie.
…I like all yoyos 
[duh]
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Nope, fun is overrated
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I think the active early 2000s competitors here are Mark, Andre, and me with Mark having clearly the best contest resume of the three of us. Eric is around a decent amount too.
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I’m definitely not a top player, nor was I at the time, but I think at one point I was technically the top ranked NH yoyoer.
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I don’t think fun and pushing boundaries is an either/or situation. I mean, I guess it depends on how you define your boundaries. I agree that there is a reason that most “competition” throws are rim weighted V’s, but just because speed and hop combos score well at competitions doesn’t mean they are the only boundaries to push. As far as improving, I think the best yo-yo is probably the one you reach for first, that vibes with you and your style and makes you want to keep playing.
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They’re a very special thing.
If you ever throw a Bape or an Eetsit and spend some serious time with it, you will start to understand how the high wall and generally more narrow gap results in very rewarding play.
I feel organic throws tend to be a bit more “fun” but are often less forgiving and demand intricacy with your string movements.
I feel they help a person develop a “softer” touch, when string layering especially.
They’re also extremely fun to play as semi, or completely responsive!
A lot of us grew up on Freehand’s and eventually FHZ’s (obviously there’s a ton of throws that I’m not mentioning lol, but you get the idea) for the early evolution of the 1a style.
Organic throws genuinely have their own “feel” during play, and while this may be an unpopular opinion, wide, large gapped throws promote laziness and sloppy hits on string tricks that are often meant to be fluid and precise.
(Hopefully I do not get too much hate for that one lol.)
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My argument against this is that if you learn how to play on an organic responsive and have already refined your technique, you no longer need to develop your technique any further and are only limiting how much you can push yourself and what you’re capable of.
This is essentially the argument I made against the anti-bimetal attitude in that thread. If you like how it feels more, cool. Solid argument. But the “encourages sloppy play” argument only holds up (imo) with people who never bothered to start on responsive high wall yo-yos to begin with.
Edit: I’m also down with the argument that you can enjoy the feel of a yo-yo that is less forgiving with mistakes, i just don’t believe that they encourage poor play when you’ve already moved past that point by learning on and playing with high walled responsives for an extensive period of time.
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I completely disagree on it holding you back…
Sure, there are certain tricks you may not be able to nail on an organic shape, namely horizontal and certain rejections, but that is the point of varying diameters and widths of organic models, some can reject string at the pivot point a little better than others due to less of a wall on a smaller dia. Organic.
And I don’t at all see how it would hold one back from what they are capable of…you become MORE capable with the tool you are utilizing.
And not everyone learns on a responsive.
I taught many many kids through the years on non responsive throws.
(I ran NEWT (north eastern Wisconsin throwers) for years before the hobby shop I worked for shut down)
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That’s frankly just not true. Repetition and practice is what determines whether your tricks are clean or sloppy.
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