Yeah with the Goat thread in mind I think it’s hard to call someone the goat who hasn’t placed high multiple times in multiple divisions. So if we’re talking someone who has done that as opposed to the best in each division then you really have to give Takeshi the title.
Also it’s hard to give it to someone who hasn’t done well in 1A considering that’s really the foundational division.
But which is more impressive? Multiple titles in a single division, or one title in multiple divisions? If someone were to win a World’s title in each division, would that make them the GOAT over and above someone who won five or six titles in only a single division?
We’re talking about Takeshi, so it’s multiple titles in multiple divisions here. And if someone has placed top 5 in multiple divisions and only won a title in one they’re still more worthy of being called the goat than someone who only won one division 5 times.
You can have the most points as a defenseman or wing in the NHL and you’re still not touching Gretzky.
That’s why I specified if we’re talking overall and not one division. If you’re the best 1A player ever but can’t place in any other style, you’re not the best yoyoer, you’re the best 1A yoyoer.
If @codinghorror were here he would probably propose a simple points system whereby winning a World’s title earns 3 points, coming in second place earns 2 points, and coming in third earns 1 point. Add up all the points earned in all divisions during a yoyoer’s career and see who comes out on top.
Yes but Shinji won 13 titles. 9 2A, and 4 Champions. John Ando won 1A and got 3rd in 2A. It’s still kind of up in the air.
You gotta remember 1A is most competitive. So Mickey winning 4 is amazing as well.
That’s why I said they have to have done well in 1A. But if it’s only 1A maybe 10 years ago that might be enough to be goat, but I’d say it’s no longer representative of yoyoing to call a multiple time 1A winner who hasn’t placed in other divisions the goat. 2-5A are just much bigger than they were and they are part of what yoyoing is now.
If you’re definitively the GOAT in 1a(Mickey) then you are definitely AT LEAST in the conversation for GOAT imo. Being the best in 2 x divisions(Hajime) is somewhat equivalent to being the best in just 1a imo.
Takeshi is in the convo because he’s GOAT of 5a while being one of the best in 1a, arguably the best to never win a title). Also being world class in 3a too.
But again. 4 world titles, ~5 Runner up, ~15 Finals. In 1a. That’s almost GOAT level stats in every other division, where it’s easier to dominate.
Combine all the x division players together it’s still nothing compared to 1a
I don’t disagree, but I just think the greatest yoyoer of all time implies they are great at yoyoing in general, not one specific type of yoyoing, even if that’s what most common style is.
I also think that’s why this discussion is better suited to each division, but someone in the goat thread wanted to specify single best yoyoer.
Maybe @codinghorror can merge the appropriate posts here with the GOAT thread.
I hear what you’re saying but if, for example, you were to choose the “greatest athlete of all time” it’s possible that you may choose someone that played a single sport. If someone is head and shoulders above all of their competition in a given era I think they could qualify as GOAT.
This is a very solid argument that I have nothing to say against.
I think that comparison doesn’t really make sense at all.
Comparing basketball to football is like comparing Yoyo to diabolo
I think maybe something better would be like: the GOAT of basketball would be someone that was the best in one position rather than being great in all of them
Lol, well comparing 1A to 4A is kinda like comparing yoyo to diabolo as well isn’t it?
Imo that’s the point. I think this argument is better served by sorting by division but some people want to argue who’s Goat generally.
On top of that basketball in 1950 is completely different from basketball in 2019 as well, and people will still have the goat argument about the sport as a whole.
I agree. To me, the different divisions of yoyoing is like the different track & field events of the decathlon. In my view, the decathlon gold medal winner is a better overall athlete than any of the individual event medalers, even those who win more than one.
4a is more different than 1a/3a/5a but a lot of the elements are still the same. Whips, slacks, some hops and tech, regens, binds.
Like I said comparing basketball positions is way more similar to Yoyo divisions than comparing basketball to ice skating or track. Point guards and centers are still playing basketball but require completely different skill sets.
Comparing different sports is comparing different skill toys
Not to sound argumentative but let me lay out a scenario. Let’s say someone wins a decathlon. And in the same era someone wins the 100, 200, and 400 meter events consecutively three times each. You’d rank the person that won the single decathlon higher in searching for the GOAT?
Probably. If only because the runner is too specialized to be called the Track & Field GOAT, at least in my view. The runner may be a track GOAT, but not a T&F GOAT. And I see yoyoing, covering five different divisions, as being like T&F versus just T or just F.
Then, I’m my humble opinion, you have to separate 1A, 3A and 5A from 4A and 2A. No one could win high level competition in 4A or 2A with a Shutter. Someone with great skills could win the other three with it though. 4A and 2A essentially require a different skill toy.
They are still called yoyos, though, so by definition they are the same skill toy, just in slightly different configurations.