I meant that Alex is a good person if you get to know him and have actually spent time talking to the guy.
I never condoned his actions as being right, I stated that his heart is in the right place and he isn’t out to get anyone, he just has issues with remembering things and procrastination.
Don’t try to twist my words.
bark
I question how him being a forum expert changes anything? I don’t think that simply having the title means you should have certain opinions about any subject. It sounds to me like Josh is just saying alex makes great yoyos at a very good price point, which in and of itself shows his heart is in the right place, but he unfortunately has horrendous business ethics. I’ll deal with him in person any day, and he’s not a bad guy, but I would never order something directly from him. This could be, and likely is, a biased viewpoint though, given that I see him fairly often.
‘issues remembering things and procrastination’. Those are 2 traits that a Businessman cannot afford to have.
Josh, this is less a concern of his Heart being in the right place, It is more important that his yoyos ‘Be’ in the right places, in boxes, being Mailed out to All the people he has been Slacking on.
And if, if, he has heard of, read or followed this thread at all, then his Memory should be fully refreshed and he should start getting it together.
If he doesnt, then so much for his Heart being in the right place.
Quit being a Martyre for Alex.
nobody is twisting your words. you just happen to have a twisted view of reality on this issue.
The solution is clearly as yoyodoc, Steve Brown, and others have already stated. Do not buy direct. I read the whole thread, and it is clear that many of the current issues arose because individuals are buying yo-yos direct from RecRev. None of the retailers are complaining about not getting their yo-yos. So, not buying direct, as an individual, is clearly the solution to the problem.
But, I would like to turn the discussion to solutions we might propose to force the hand of Alex to fulfill all of his outstanding obligations to individual direct buyers like the OP. I have thought this through, and reached a dead end, and I will tell you why.
At first, I was thinking if Alex always fulfills his orders to retailers, he cares about his impression on them, because he needs their money. One solution, is to have the retailers “collectively” decide not to stock RecRev, until his list of obligations to the individual buyers has been fulfilled. Unless that can be accomplished as a community, Alex has no financial incentive to make things right with these individuals.
The problem with that is, why would retailers, who have had no problems with Alex, stop doing business with him, to benefit individuals who could have bought from their store in the first place (and avoided all of this). Why would retailers go out of their way to help people who bypassed their services and offer of “good customer service,“ to buy direct instead? His team member stated that he would remind Alex of his obligations, but he did not go so far as to say, “I will not support the company, until all these orders are filled.” Unless the community as a whole was going to take the issue seriously to that level, nothing will be done to fix this. Alex’s team seems to be getting what they want from him, so you will not see them take it to that extent and really put the pressure on by not supporting him until the orders are filled. The retailers are getting what they ordered, so they are satisfied too. The retailers and his team putting that pressure on, would be the only solution. But, they both would have no incentive to do so…therefore the dead end.
Alex is keeping everyone happy who has the ability to put the pressure on him, both retailers and his team. So, there is a solution to the problem not happening in the future (don‘t buy direct). But, retailers and his team, who have the ability “collectively” to put the pressure on, have no incentive to do so for the reasons I outlined above. Until that happens, everyone like the OP is just out of their money. For the future, it has already been stated…do not buy direct.
Now, the above deals with the retailers and team members having no “financial incentive” to put pressure on. How about moral incentive? The problem is this. The retailers and team are dealing with Alex Kim, and getting what they need from him. The OP surfaces with 0 feedback on the forum, a few posts, and comes on here stating that he did not get his yo-yo. His claim might be completely valid based on past history of things, but to be fair, he would have to provide evidence to give his claim of not receiving the yo-yo any credibility. Before anyone goes out on a limb to put this “pressure” on, they want to see at least a receipt. If I have deals with someone, and dealt with them 20 times, with no issues, and a few people with no evidence stepped up to say they were ripped off, would I go so far as to say “I’m not going to place an order again until this guy gets his yo-yo” or “I’m not going to represent the company until this issue is resolved?” Put yourself in their shoes. Based on that, no issue of morality kicks in yet. I would need proof of what happened, before morality kicked in to determine that anything wrong has been done in the first place.
Also, this thread has been active for a few weeks. The OP has had an issue. There was a past history of issues which cannot be disputed. But, let’s look at the here and now. How many others have chimed in on this thread and said, “How owes me yo-yos too…I’m looking for him.” If there was this outpouring of information from all these people being ripped off, and they were posting receipts and Paypal information and all that appearing credible, you might see a different result. Until then, posts like this, where the OP states himself, that he is not upset at all, and would accept that the yo-yo might be stolen from his doorstep but he just wants to “communicate” directly with Alex, will not get the kind of reaction you might think.
I am just trying to put in perspective why there are people in the community who are not putting the pressure on Alex to follow through. I have to admit, that if I was a team member, and Alex fulfilled every promise to me, even with a bad history…I would require some proof from anyone alleging a claim, before I put pressure on him to fulfill the order or lose my support.
So, now, I’ll put it on anyone out there who is owed anything from RecRev, to surface now, and post in here about what is owed, and post their proof to substantiate the claim. Remember, the OP just posted about how to contact RecRev, he is not upset as he stated. He has not posted receipts and such. Nothing against him, I just want to be fair about it. Is anyone out there currently upset about an order they placed that has not been filled?
If you can get five people to post in here with proof to add credibility, things would get interesting.
Holy macaroni. Just stop. Stop this stupid nonsense. Take a breather guys. Cool your jets. Way past cray.
Especially you.
What are you talking about? There is a civil and fair discussion taking place. Take your own advice.
Civil and fair? Everyone’s going nuts.
Exactly. No one was going “nuts.” Everyone made their points in here, and not just one point of view either. I didn’t see anything go “nuts” until we all got told to stop the “stupid nonsense.” When I see the words “stupid nonsense,” to describe people’s posts, that’s when things went “nuts.” We might agree that things were not nuts before, but they are definitely nuts now. :-\
From reading Anthony’s comments it seems the teams don’t exactly get what they should when they should either.
I’m not so sure the retailers are taken care of like you seem to think they are. although all I have heard on that end are story’s from people I would trust but not from the horse’s mouth so to speak.
Top it off I have seen alex himself come on boards and admit not sending stuff swear he will then still not send the stuff, show back up and admit too it again. Sometimes say he did ship then admit to not shipping. At one point this was often.
This is the point where, people won’t really demand proof, its a long drawn out process that those of us that have been around to watch don’t throw much skepticism on. Its a “Yeah thats alex”, kinda’ thing.
This is not a normal trade gone wrong deal.
And we are talking about the guy who made one of my all time favorite throws, the bio malleus.
I see your level headed approach and agree with it in most case’s, but in this one I think we can just assume its legitimate. even if Anthony didn’t pop in here and verify that the order was made and paid for like he did.
I’m not jumping on the throw him under the bus deal, like many have said he is a nice guy I have had conversations with I enjoyed, I play a yoyo he produced often. Really wish he would get it together, but I totally believe he took this dudes money and didn’t fallow through with getting him the throws. Even if that was because they got lost, and he hasn’t put in the foot work to get the insurance or resend the throws, or hell even keep in contact. Those are all things a good retailer/manufacturer would do with out hesitation.
Its clear that Alex is a rubbish businessman, but in defence of Josh I understand where he’s coming from. Lets be honest, I’m sure that most of these big companies like McDonalds, Nike, Primark, Microsoft etc are or have engaged in dodgy business practices and screwing over the little guy and customers, but most of us still use them. If some guy gets a human brain burger in Mexico, I’m not going to stop eating Big Macs.
It’s like eggs. I only buy free range eggs because I like to think that at the very least the “free range” chickens have enough space to stretch their legs a bit. I don’t like battery farming and so I don’t support it, however I respect the choice of other people that might just want to get the cheapest eggs to do so. I’m not going to go around supermarkets knocking cartons from people’s hands and lecturing them.
I won’t support Alex Kim personally, in my opinion he really needs to get his act together and start giving people the things that they have paid for, so im not putting any more money in his pockets. However I won’t try and force other people to follow the same course of action. I accept people stating their reasons why they feel that people should, and theres no reason people shouldnt put forward their arguments. However at the end of the day it’s an entirely personal choice and in a “land of the free, home of the brave” way, you have to accept that people can and will make their own moral decisions.
I’m okay to presume everything the OP says is legitimate. But, even then, the OP, at this point maintains this:
“Currently, I’m not proposing that RecRev has scammed me, I’m just worried and confused about the package not having arrived, yet. The reason for that is still unknown to me, though.”
If I paid $170, and had no yo-yo, I’d be screaming it from the rooftops that I was scammed. But, that’s just me. I think that until everyone “collectively” puts the pressure on him, retailers, team, buyers and so on, there is no incentive for him to act any differently. The OP has not even said he was scammed. This thread shows that everyone as a community, is not on the same page, and for that reason, RecRev will be doing business into the foreseeable future.
We can tell people not to buy direct, but those are the people who read threads like this on forums and are educated about the history. New people will always pop up like the OP, after it is already too late.
Actually…he’s screwed plenty of retailers, too.
lol just observing this thread and seriously baffled at how this Alex guy survives day to day life. Does he have a full-time caretaker or something? Possibly the most lazy and pathetic individual i’ve ever heard of.
He forever ended pre-orders at YYN, if I remember correctly.
Yikes! Thanks for confirming that. I presumed that because things were still in stores, everything was peachy. I also presumed that because he still has a team, that things for them, while not perfect, were “good enough.” It is even more a mystery now, why everyone is not on the same page with this. :-\
Until everyone gets on the same page, there is no incentive for him to change anything. I wonder if retailers just employ a policy now, where they get the yo-yos first, then pay him. That may solve any future issues on their end.
After reading all of this, I cannot believe no one has said anything about what I think is a huge reason why Alex acts the way he does; He’s just a kid. I had no idea that he was so young. While I do understand that everyone deserves a chance to do whatever it is they want to do, EG: manufacture yoyos, what is a 15-16yr old doing starting and running a business? Did I read that right? He was 16 years old when he started BIO industries? I’m just curious, what did everyone expect? And now he’s what, in his lower 20’s? I read about his shady ways long before this thread and I did/do find it a little absurd that someone could have so much disregard for other people’s hard earned money, but after finding out his age, one thing that i’m not is surprised. I know there’s gonna be reply’s about how young people can be responsible too and this and that and yes I know they can, however, finding someone that young that can run and manage a company is not an easy task. I’m 30 years old and I’m just going on what I’ve seen and how I was and all my friends were at that age. Though still very young, his age now makes a little more sense than trying to start and run a company at the age of 15/16 years old. Did his mom drive him to the manufacturers so he could talk with them about making his yoyo’s? I don’t get it at all. And please, any younger person reading this, don’t take offense. I was once that age and I was very cocky and I thought I was on top of the world, but even I would had known better than to take on something like that. And that last thing I want is a bunch of teenagers reading this and cussing me out. All i’m saying is at that age, you don’t know jack. You’ll disagree and yada yada yada, I know, I would had too at that age, but one day, you too will look back and remember how irresponsible and “green” you were at that age.
Yes, retailers have had bad experience with him as well, I can confirm this also as I was told by one. Your solution to that problem (ship first, pay after getting the yoyos) is actually what that store does now.
And your presumtion was the thing that also got me into thinking that RecRev can be trusted. You see their yoyos in many stores, people on the forums love their yoyos, they have a team, so why should anything go wrong if I order directly from them?
The reason for not being mad is simple: as of right now I don’t know what has and what hasn’t happened. It could be that I got scammed but it might as well be the case that the package got lost. It happens. It’s a bit strange that it should happen with a package from a guy/company that has a history of scams, but who knows? If I was to call Alex a liar and theif, I’d run the risk of being not much better than that if there was indeed something else that went wrong with the package. The only thing that I know for sure is that he’s really bad at communicating. Everything else is pure speculation and I don’t want to got there right now.
Get the Defibrillator, cuz you just Killed me. No doubt I will be better in a minute.
Now that a number of us have literally taken turns pulling on the rope and gently lifting Alexs’ feet off the ground, you are handing him a Monopoly Get outta Jail card.
Ok, let me help you clear the cloud of doubt from your mind.
Lets go by what we know. (everybody please understand that I am not a first hand Witness to any of this. So what I propose is based solely from the Information that has come to light during the course of this 'where’s my stuff Saga).
Ok, here is what we seemingly know. You sent Alex $170 for yoyos, including shipping. You have never received anything for your $170.
It is ‘possible’ but almost impossible to believe that Alex is not aware you have received Nothing
One of his ‘friends/team players’ has actually come on the Board to acknowledge that no doubt, Alex has some 'Do the right thing, Performance issues).
If by some miracle, up until recently, Alex may not even have been aware of this pending ‘where’s my stuff’ situation.
But now, this week, this last few days, today, tomorrow, Alex has to be up to speed on all this.
It is much easier and much Faster to send money to Germany, than it is to send yoyos.
So at this point in this Drama, Alex should have already or should within the next day or two (max) be getting in touch with you.
He should state that he is fully aware ‘now’ of a ‘haven’t received your package yet problem’.
He should either admit to you he has been Slacking and will immediately send your stuff to you, with expedited shipping. And send you a copy of the shipping info/receipt.
Or he should immediately provide you with a Time stamped receipt, showing you when he sent the package off to you. The Date doesn’t matter at this point. Your name and address in Germany should be on the receipt.
…IF, he can’t bring himself to do either, then the most Satisfactory solution is SIMPLE. <> send back your Money… Paypal, wire transfer, whatever. Immediately.
If Alex doesn’t have sufficient funds to send you back ‘your’ money(understand that if he hasn’t completed his half of your deal, then he is not sending back his money, he is sending back your money), then Alex does not have a Yoyo Business. He is just a Dude selling yoyos.
There should be an open channel of communication between You and Alex. If he has nothing to hide, then why is he so friggn hard to find?
His Reputation is worth 170 bucks? He won’t jump into the Ring and just be a Man and Square things up?
He is such a Wuss that he will let his guys Stunt Double for him?
Bottom line…1. If he sent a Package to you, he should provide proof, etc. 2. If he didnt send the Package, then fess up and send it out or don’t even bother fess in up, just Send back ‘Your’ 170 bucks.
Lets All forget any and all preconceived notions about Alex and his shaky history. At this point, lets just consider the complaint that Started this 7 page Thread. Lets just focus on Alex with 170 bucks in his pocket that belongs to a guy in Germany.
GNNy, putting the burden of proof/benefit of doubt up for consideration makes you a Horrible witness in your own defense.
Every deal has 2 parts: what you do and what he does. You have done part one(money sent)(even though Paypal will do nothing, they can provide proof in your Paypal history that you sent 170 bucks to RecRev).
Now Alex has to Complete his half of the Deal. If he doesn’t, then it wasn’t a Deal at all. It was Fraud.
Paging, Alex Kim. Alex Kim. White Courtesy phone in the Lobby. Cleanup on Aisle 5.
Period.
Note>>> just a little insight on why I think the way I do on the Subject of ‘Deals’.
I have been building and or rebuilding Cars and Motorcycles for 45 years now. 45 years ago, when my Dad could see it was obvious that I was gonna be buying and selling: cars, bikes, parts, he gave me some pretty strong words of advice. He basically boiled it down to 3 things.
When you make a Deal, never Lie. If you don’t Lie, you don’t have to remember what you said.
When you enter into a Deal, always deal with somebody in a way, that if they meet you again 5 years later, they will be happy to see you. That way you know everything was on the Square.
If you play fair and Don’t Burn people on Deals, you won’t have to keep looking over your shoulder, to see who is coming up behind you with an Axe handle.
Reputation and Honor are not exactly the same thing. But there is not much Honor in a Bad Reputation. And without Honor, you are Nothing.
It is possible that anybody can change. But if given the opportunity to change an Obvious shortcoming and they fail to take the Initiative, nobody has to literally put an X on their Forehead. They Identify themselves.
I don’t want anybody to Fail. I don’t personally want to throw anybody under the Bus.
But Burning another yoer for Peanuts?
Nah, I don’t think so…