Best place to buy Titanium throws?

General Yo-Yo
21

None of those reasons really seem like reasons to me. Durability, or whether or not you want to collect things made of titanium are just…not really that strong, for me.

I honestly think you’re not doing people any favors by glossing over this fact and saying it plays great anyway. That’s just my point of view. If you’d like to say it plays well that’s perfectly fine, but an alternative to an Oxy Ti, or Sovereign, or Ti5 in terms of design it really is not (whether or not you “care” about design). People, especially those who explain they are specifically concerned about budget when choosing a titanium, should know why they’re “saving” money. It’s not just cheap, it’s different.

Whether or not it plays better than other ti’s is absolutely irrelevant to the argument presented. None of my ti’s are my favorite throw. They’re still designs that couldn’t be made in aluminum, which justified my purchasing them and presumably justified their being created. The Richochet is not like this. It was made entirely, as per ben’s explanation, in an attempt to make titanium profitable. That’s kind of a big deal to me as a buyer who has plenty of organic aluminums to choose from.

22

Thanks for your “perspective,” but I was addressing someone who might be wondering about the Ricochet as a titanium to buy. None of those reasons seem like reasons “to you.” My reasons never seem like reasons to you…nothing new is it? I addressed that specifically to those who were wondering…not to you. You are not wondering, as you already stated you are not interested.

I don’t care if you have a perspective that I’m “glossing” over anything. I think you are “glossing” over plenty yourself. For some people on here, how a yo-yo plays is all that matters. And combined with the other reasons I articulated, durability, availability, extras, cost, looks, color option, is enough reason to buy a Ricochet. That is my perspective, whether you like it or not. That Ricochet, according to a person who owns the vast majority of titaniums (Stickman) does not play like the others and is, “different” for that reason. He considers it money well spent. I would agree.

I’ll make my point again, now directly to you, because you quoted me. You said:

“The ability to do super thin walls and play with weight distribution in a way that you can’t with aluminum is the reason anyone cares.” And, that’s not true, because I for one, care about whether it plays good regardless of super thin walls. I cared enough to want to buy it twice. So it is not the reason “anyone cares.” I think half of these are sold, so it doesn’t matter to enough of us who will enjoy it. It matters to you…and that’s fine…whatever.

The yo-yo looks great, plays great, gives you color options, has extras included, you can spark it…and it costs about the same as an aluminum Berserker even at full price. Cost me the same as a Chief or Cliff during a sale. I highly recommend it. You have your perspective…I have mine…simple as that really.

I’m not addressing you…I’m addressing “other people.” So, let them determine whether I’m doing them a favor…not you. I don’t think you’re doing any favors either to be quite honest.

23

Your post is pretty much a line by line rebuttal to my original post. Yeah, the first sentence says “to everyone…”, so I’m out of line for responding. ::slight_smile: It’s like I think this is a discussion forum or something.

This kind of thing is why we never agree. My explanation of how it was different was plain as day. It’s a benign fact, ben even came on here and wrote it out. And yet, still, there’s some argument to be had. Just concede a point for once. It is different in design and intention than other ti’s, and that’s why it’s cheap compared to other ti’s. It doesn’t mean you lose, it doesn’t mean the Ricochet isn’t fun, it just means we’re conceding a fact.

…and again. Why? Why argue this? I mean, we’re really having a discussion where we’re pretending that weight distribution is not the reason anyone in their right mind would even bother messing with titanium for a yoyo? It’s just senseless. Why not just agree that the Ricochet is an odd beast when it comes to titanium yoyo design…and then we can say whatever we want about how much we like it? It’s the argument about the most basic points that makes this so confusing and difficult.

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double :-\

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Those statements were for someone who might be interested in the Ricochet. I said to everyone who is wondering about the Ricochet, or sitting on the fence. So, that was for a particular audience. I don’t even care about what Ben said about the design, and why it costs what it does. I read some of his statements, and did not even care to know anything about that. I bought for other reasons entirely, some of them listed already, and I enjoy the yo-yo for those reasons. My perspective is that it’s worth the money it costs…just that simple. There is no win or lose here, and people reading this will just see that we have very different interests when buying. Maybe it will do someone some good to see the contrasting points of view, that may not have been clear elsewhere on the forum. I have already agreed to that though. You care about the design and thin walls in a titanium purchase…I personally could care less. I want something that looks nice, plays nice, more durable, I can spark it and if it costs the same as a lot of aluminum throws…all the better. I think on this yo-yo, people will feel one way or the other about it. But, no product will appeal to all, so that’s fine. I just don’t want people to miss out on a yo-yo that plays that great.

26

I get that you like it, and I think it’s fine to like a throw. I just don’t think it’s necessarily fine to imply that it is a better value than other titanium throws. It’s certainly priced better than other titanium throws, but we know for a fact that it is not like other titanium throws in a very crucial way.

Does that mean you shouldn’t buy it? Of course not. But I think it’s relevant, and thought it was relevant when I posted, to note that comparing it to other titaniums based on price alone is not quite as logical as it seems. If one didn’t know the facts about it’s design, or that it was an experiment to see if titanium yoyos could be profitable, they may not actually be getting the thing they initially set out to get. A hunk of titanium, yes. But maybe not the unique thing that makes the idea of a titanium yoyo so alluring in the first place.

27

Just because they choose not to have extremely thin walls doesn’t mean it has bad weight distribution

You can still use the effects of the titanium to give it a feel that aluminum couldn’t just because of how dense it is. Titanium has always felt different to me whenever I play it

1 Like
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@ Stookie…

I’m going to stop with the long quotes, because as long as we post right after one another, people will know what we refer to. I never implied buying the Ricochet based on price alone. That’s what you decided to take from it apparently, but I never implied it. I listed several reasons to buy the yo-yo on this site, aside from price. But, if someone was making the decision on price alone, they have a right to do that, it’s their money. If someone is looking for the lowest priced retail available titanium, there is only one answer I can give them…“The Ricochet.” The price is low for a titanium, one of the lowest I’ve ever seen during a sale, and it is a great playing yo-yo and worth the money for the reasons I listed. I’ll stop listing all those reasons.

Your perspective is fine for those who care about design and all. But, for those like me…I don’t care, and many others do not care. I don’t think this yo-yo was ever marketed based on some cutting edge design, so they are reaching the market they want to reach with it. That would be people like me. I can certainly contribute my perspective about whether I’m enjoying playing the Ricochet as much as the other titanium throws I own. I am enjoying it more than the Sovereign, and as much as my Oxy Ti. All of them are nice, but I have a right to say how I see it. And, there you have it. The Ricochet is a fantastic yo-yo.

The thing that makes a titanium throw alluring in the first place, varies from person to person. What is alluring is based on perspective. We happen to be two people on opposite ends of the spectrum, with contrasting points of view. The design never allured me to any of the titaniums I bought so far. If they can make a design with thin walls and all that…cool, but my question at the end of the day, is whether it plays great. So, none of it really matters to me anyway. I want a great playing yo-yo, and the Ricochet is that. It also has a great price, and I consider it a great value as well, for the reasons I listed. It’s not a hunk of titanium, it is a yo-yo, that plays great. If it was a paperweight, I’d call it a hunk of metal, but that thing plays awesome.

I own the Oxy Ti, and my understanding from past posts was that you do as well. I paid more than twice what I paid for the Ricochet, and bought two of those, but have no idea about how thin the walls are. I’m in camp “Who cares?” The Ricochet is an undersize, and plays different, but I am enjoying it just as much as that one. That’s why I’m on here raving about it.

29

As for the first point, I completely agree. The issue isn’t that the Ricochet must be bad, the “issue” is that the Ricochet makes no attempt to be extremely good from a design perspective. Typically, when we pay so much for titaniums, we’re not doing it because we like the metal. We’re doing it because the designer is usually attempting some otherwise crazy design that we can’t get anywhere else. Ricochet doesn’t. Not definitely bad. Just not definitely interesting.

Second…maybe. I mean, one issue with saying this is that basically every other titanium throw has actually been different in design than aluminum yoyos, so they feel different. A titanium of similar design to an aluminum may feel different to your hand, I don’t know, but the metal alone is not terribly likely to make it play that much different given it’s being of similar weight.

In any case, I just find it hard to personally get over what ben said about the yoyo. He really made a thing about it. He was insistent that the reason the Ricochet exists is to “prove” that a properly designed and properly priced titanium could be profitable, as most every other company who has attempted it left too little profit margin which resulted in a move away from titanium throws altogether. I see what he means. It is nice that someone would want to revive this idea and make it practical. The problem is just that, in being a sort of expiriment in cost, the Ricochet didn’t really take any risks at all…and in the process, sort of defeated its own purpose of promoting titaniums. It actually makes a better argument for spending less and just buying an aluminum…to me.

30

I see your point here (short quote). I think people in my way of thinking are not looking for “interesting” at all from a design perspective…we are buying and enjoying on other grounds. For those of you who have that perspective, I get your point, but I think the Ricochet is marketed to those who see things from my point of view. It may not be different in design, but I have never felt anything else that feels like that yo-yo. I’m way more interested in that part of it. Just my take on it.

31

I still dunno. I would never argue that people buying titaniums are some kind of design geeks, who just can’t keep themselves calm when talking about weight distribution and spend their days working out optimal throw trajectories in a dark room.

When I say we care about design, I mean that from the most casual perspective possible. A player, looking at the specs of a yoyo, the shape of a yoyo, and deciding whether or not that is the best yoyo for the dollars they can spend. And on that front, titanium has always been interesting and has justified it’s high cost specifically because it often represents an extreme. That was the titanium market…the sort of supercars of the yoyo world. Totally impractical, but the “best” we could do with yoyo properties to make an attempt for the perfect throw design. At very least, something objectively different than everything else on the market.

…and Ricochet takes that away somewhat. It’s made of titanium, but it doesn’t do what titaniums do. It’s just another yoyo in the mix with all the other aluminums, albeit at an even higher price. This is where I lose interest. Not because cross sections get me excited, but because I just don’t see where the extra dollars are going. I just don’t see why someone out to get their first titanium because titaniums intrigue them would want to go for the Ricochet, because it doesn’t have the thing that’s intriguing.

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I’d rather have a tried and true shape that performs well than something that pushes the limits of design but plays terribly and can we please get over the cross sections

33

And you can. You can have the Ricochet’s tried and true organic shape in any number of aluminum yoyos for half the price or even less. They’ll play great. That’s kind of the point. What is the Ricochet’s metal doing to change this? Nothing, I don’t think.

I also think this is kind of a weird argument that suggests a designer would be so focused on making their design unique that they would settle for a yoyo that plays terribly. I don’t think we’ve seen that happen yet with titaniums, at all. I think what really happens is that a designer finally gets to make all those little changes that aluminum never allowed them to make. They were always stuck with some percentage of weight being wasted in the walls, and now they’re not, for example. They’re the same people designing those great aluminum throws, but now they no longer have to accept so many compromises.

34

I fealt the overall shape and play of the BSP was terrible

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@ Stookie…

I don’t necessarily see people who buy titanium as “design geeks” per se. After all, I buy titanium, and could care less about the design. But, I think it’s just a matter of some care, some don’t.

Interesting point you raise about what titaniums usually do in the yo-yo market. I think it’s brilliant that YoyoFactory thought outside the box, and decided to do what no one else was doing with titanium. Instead of trying to outdo everyone on the thin walls and design, they thought, let’s do something else. How about we make a titanium affordable to all, that instead of focusing on impressing people with thin walls (the yo-yo world has seen that already ::slight_smile: ). Ours will just play fantastic, and it will be made in a large quantity, so people have access, regardless of income, and don’t have to fight over them or have the money “now.” We’ll also give them a color option and include some extras. From a perspective of someone sitting in a board room, having a conversation about what kind of titanium to make…It think it’s brilliant. I never bought a titanium to be impressed with the walls or design. Depending on how many people think as I do, or those who previously felt shut out of the titanium world, this offers something new to the market. Now, for the price of a Berserker, you can have a titanium. During a sale, the same price as a Chief or Cliff.

The thing is, sure Ricochet might be the titanium that throws the “supercar” idea out of the window, from one perspective though. From my perspective, it is indeed a supercar in it’s own right, because it performs so fantastic, and beyond one of my other Tis with advertised thin walls. So design, for me, has become irrelevant. The performance is fantastic. The Ricochet comes out of the box shinier than any yo-yo I have ever seen, including that Oxy Ti. It looks like a supercar for other reasons to me. I’m cool with that, and I know your mind is made up. But, I was on the fence for a while before making this purchase, and I’m still kicking myself for waiting as long as I did. The Ricochet is awesome.

36

I felt exactly as you did…I couldn’t have said it better.

37

Valid complaint, but also true of virtually all Anti-Yo’s. Never really was a company, and certainly not recently, known for pumping out great player designs.

At any rate, I stand by what I said. I don’t think titanium causes designers to put the design before the play. I think it does quite the opposite. I think the limitations of aluminum causes them to have to put design before play at times, but titanium allows them to make fewer compromises, and get more features that they want into one design without worrying about the overall weight coming to like 100g.

38

I mean, I’d even agree with his argument, but I don’t think his argument represents any kind of reality. Since when were titanium throws ever known for being too risky in design? It doesn’t really happen. Designers don’t just go bonkers and make something terrible. They still make something great. But this new thing, with this new metal, allows them to do things they couldn’t do before…and I’d say a lot of the time, they’re not just doing something different, but actually fixing the issues that aluminum causes.

39

I’ve been giving this some thought. Part of what Ben was saying about the Ricochet, was not only the stuff I mentioned in the last post about making it available to all, and it being affordable, and plays great and so on. But, he also mentioned something, about using the Ricochet as sort of a potential gateway for other titanium designs by YoyoFactory in the future. He mentioned that if the Ricochet, which he described as “vanilla” did well, he might entertain opening things up to other designs in the future. In other words, he is creating a larger titanium market, simply buy putting 1000 Ricochets in hands. Many people who never had the chance to own or afford one, and counted them out, will get that great playing yo-yo in their hands and think, “wow, these titaniums are fantastic, I’d buy another.” I think it’s absolutely brilliant, and because they focused on how great it plays, instead of design alone, they will capture a lot of people. That benefits not only YoyoFactory, but the market as a whole for manufacturers who want to work with titanium.

I’d rather have a classic design that plays fantastic, than a cutting edge design that plays…“nice.” I think they both have their audience, as we discussed. But, I’d rather have the former than the latter. YoyoFactory, I believe, marketed their first titanium to people who think just like me. It was brilliant, because I think they did the entire market some good. I like to see people who cold not previously afford something, get to try something fantastic. I like what they accomplished with this. Ben said that sales projections have these sold out in the Fall. I hope they make another one after this one. I was thoroughly impressed, not only with the yo-yo, but what they sought to achieve with it.

40

That is fine and all but then what is the point of making it out of titanium? Is the urge to purposely cause damage to a high priced yo-yo so high in order to cause sparking? That seems silly to me.

Lets pose this then to both you and TotalArtist. If you have two yo-yos that perform exactly the same, have the same shape, and design but one is $200 and Titanium while the other is $100 and Aluminum which one are you going to get and more importantly why? Keep in mind in this hypothetical situation they look, feel, and perform the same.