I return to this point to clarify this aspect, having recently found clarifications for this specific aspect
Fixing The porosities of the anodic layer are the first triggers of corrosion. In order to improve the corrosion resistance, a process called fixing is carried out which can be differentiated into:
- Hot fixing: treatment carried out by immersion in water with a temperature of about 95 ° C which allows the hydration of the aluminum oxide and the closure of the pores on the surface. - Cold fixing: by immersion in a nickel fluoride solution at room temperature, nickel fluoride molecules penetrate inside the pore which improve the corrosion resistance of the anodic layer. As a final step it is recommended to perform a hot fixing with a temperature of at least 60 ° C. Nickel compounds are considered carcinogenic and nickel is an allergen; for this reason hot fixing is very often preferred. It is not possible to use cold fixing on parts intended for the food sector.
Again, I don’t know what the process used by YYF’s anodizers is but the method reported by @crackout would seem the least used and in the process of being discontinued.
Just popping in to update this thread with (what I hope will be) a final update. While the anodization issue itself remains unsolved, I have been absolutely impressed with the service and communication from @YoYoExpertGarrett ! Very pleased with the return/swap options offered and couldn’t be happier with the resolution!
I’ve now got a lightly-used Wangle in silver finish, if this doesn’t hold up to thumb-grinds then I’ve already decided that I’ll keep it anyway and use it only for fingerspin tricks. This throw is just too good not to have one around even if I have to ban myself from thumb-grinding it! But in the hour or so of throwing that I’ve got on it, there are no signs of ablation so hopes are high.
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread with help and knowledge, particularly @persson and Garrett. I learned a good bit about anodizing, and was reminded why YYE is the bar to beat when it comes to caring about their customers.
Now I bought mine here in the Netherlands. And It’s taken quite a beating from me so far as far as dings go. But to see a ring wear away inside of the cup is not exactly what I was expecting from a nicer throw. (It cost me €85 over here.)
EDIT: If this was a throw I’d been using for a long time I wouldn’t mind so much. But I got this thing early November.
Same thing happened to my Pyro X, but @Roy_Dodge ’s review pointed out this could happen and I didn’t mind. Lo and behold, first time I did a thumb grind, my nail caught it just right and left this little line around the cup. I think it adds character
At the end of the day “It is a defect in the anodizing process.”
Shouldn’t happen although I have no idea what happens ot anodization of metal over given time.
I don’t thumb grind too much, maybe some of my yo-yos would leave marks from the annodization… untested.
nothing happens with the passage of time, the aluminum oxide (alumina) created on the surface with the anodic process remains so and is extremely hard (9 on the Mohs scale), consequently nothing can happen even to the colored pigment imprisoned inside it.
and that sure! it is implicit, I am talking about a process that has not had problems … the creation of the oxide layer takes place in a correct way as well as the infiltration of the colored pigment but if then, for example, the last phase, of sealing the pores with it occurs in a not correct way, the pigment with the contact of the hands and related substances (sweat, sebaceous liquid, fats) will inevitably come out of the pores, giving rise to a discoloration.
As well as, if the oxide layer is very few microns (5 or less), however hard, it will still be very fragile and will tend to be detached with friction.
I wouldn’t say, there are yoyos that are decades old and that have normally been exposed to light and have their color from when they were made … as well as many other objects (window shutters, etc.)
I just checked my other throws to compare. My Gway, MagicYoyo and Vosun throw do not show any wear like the YYF Flame does. They all show no wear from thumbnails/grinds at all.
The YYF Flame is my only yoyo that shows the thumbnail wear. (This is my only metal YYF throw, so I can not say how representative this is of the brand.)
So far, it looks like this is an issue with the shinier semi-gloss finish only? @Shapapy and @LX_Emergency it looks from the pics that your throws are the same semi-gloss sort of ano as both the Wangles that I had issues with. I wonder if the semi-gloss ones are all done at the same shop and there’s a routine mistake being made there? Or if perhaps the heavier blast finishes are easier to “get right”?
I have had no issues with my other thumb-grinding throws, which include a YYF K.O., YoTricks Canon, Graviti Vulcan and Basecamp Expedition. Incidentally all of these throws except the Canon have a very soft blast finish compared to the Wangle’s shinier anodizing.
Alexander did you purchase your Flame from a retailer or secondhand? If from a retailer it would probably be worth it to at least get in touch with them so they’re aware of the issue.
I got it from a local retailer. So yes I was planning on getting in touch with them. I just hope they don’t make too much of a fuss about the other dings on it.
update: the retailer is getting in touch with yoyo factory.
I never thumb grind, just don’t get any enjoyment out of it really, but I also am not at all surprised by friction wearing down ano. If it was in new condition and the ano was wearing off that’s on thing, but if the yoyo has ‘taken quite a beating’ as you put it i’m really not sure the retailer or YoYoFactory should be expected to do anything about it.
I have experience sunlight fading anodization. I had a yoyo I never used (years ago, can’t remember the brand or model) sitting on the side of my desk that is constantly in the sunlight. I remember looking at it one day and noticing the top half was significantly faded. It wasn’t from play, so the only other reasoning would be the sunlight it was always exposed to.
A quick google search can confirm most anodizing dyes will fade when exposed to sunlight over time.
By “it’s taken a beating” I mean that it’s hit the ground a bunch of times. And had some dings because of that
This is not a problem and I’d never expect a manufacturer to do anything about it.
However…I have throws that I paid less than 1/4th if the price of this one for and also do thumb grinds with and they show no sign of wear whatsoever.
I’m not sure if I even expect YYF or anyone to do anything about it. Right now I’m just informing people of what I perceive to be a production flaw. If they go “you’ve dinged it too much we’re not going to do anything about that” I’d understand.
However if they don’t even want to investigate something like this then I would indeed be disappointed. What could be even worse is if they go “we know about this, it’s an accepted state of affairs”. Because this was not a cheap throw and rubbing it with a fingernail even with high speeds should not rub off the ano.
Butl if theywant to investigate it I’ll ship it to them if needed and they can send it back to me beat up state and all. I do love playing the thing.
All this grinding wear should be looked at as a badge of honor from play, akind to scuffed rims from walking the dog on old fixed axles (watch the Duncan Heritage video) or even the wear you get on a skateboard from actually doing tricks. Nothing cooler than a crooked grind groove on your front truck from the proper Pinch . Have fun and play toys hard,
If it was the result of hours of play, I’d agree. But for a new throw to start losing it’s color almost immediately is a bit of a bummer. Especially when that color is left as a chalky deposit on one’s thumb.
Also if it was merely cosmetic it wouldn’t be so bad, but in the first case that I started this thread with, the finish was a splash finish and only the base color was “soft”. The result was that after it wore off, the thumb grind experience was bumpy and scrubbed spin speed at an amazing rate since the areas with the splash colors were still hard and unworn.
The second one that I personally experienced the issue with was a solid color and less than a week old when it started shedding it’s finish. It may or may not have played alright after having all the finish worn off, but as YYE generously offered me a return, I opted to do that rather than roll the dice on having TWO bum Wangles on my hands.
So yeah I’m all for a good patina on a yoyo! But I think it should happen over time and many happy hours of play, not within the first month.
. Have fun and play toys hard,