yeh but there going to want to make as much money as possible what ever it takes
i suppose if i photographed it (or allowed it to be) a few years ago and then sat on it while hundreds of yo-yoers saw it in the intervening time (i know i had, and forgotten it), i’d probably say it’s not too surprising.
that said, i don’t think that yyf’s replay is, at a $10 price point and made of plastic, in any way competing with the andert yo-yo (assuming it is ever even widely sold). no one would NOT buy a ‘muffintop’ because they sprung for $10 on a replay. we’re also talking about a guy who sells yo-yo’s not by the thousand (or even hundred), but by the ‘tens’. high performance, ultra smooth yo-yo’s that are machined with love. yoyofactory is putting a similar molded shape with 201 rings in the hands of literally anyone who wants one.
and i’m sorry, but the decade+ old henrys lizard uses the same IDEA, which is what we’re discussing. it’s entirely possible that russ originally borrowed the weight-distribution concept from that yo-yo. would that make him a dirty thief? of course not.
regardless of the ‘intellectual capital’, i’d much rather see awesome, inexpensive plastic yo-yo’s get into the hands of kids who will use them than see the design stagnate because a high-end metal boutique manufacturer isn’t in a position to make/release them.
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That is a very good point, Mr. Haponik. The only thing that bothers me about this whole situation is that YYF got very upset (understandably) when BIST cloned their 888 design. Like you said, however, this is $10 and made of plastic which hardly makes it a “clone.” One must admit, however, that the designs are too similar to be of consequence.
I don’t get why people are freaking out over this and nobody seems to care at all when an Aoda copies a yoyo.
It’s extremely telling that the assumption nearly everyone is making is that YYF did see the MuffinTop, and then specifically chose to copy it.
Which, if any of you actually knew any of the people involved in YYF, you would realize is probably the single most unlikely possibility of all.
Seems to me like a lot of people with a grudge looking for a reason to chase it.
Plenty of us used to mod Henry’s Lizards with metal rings jammed in under the lip…usually soldering wire. Russ came up with an idea that used the same concept but was machined out of metal. Icthus, by your admission he’s been keeping the idea quiet. So is it really so impossible that YYF wasn’t aware of it?
Considering that I don’t know anyone who was aware of the Muffin Top before you flipped out about it, I’m having a pretty hard time imagining that it was ripped off. And considering that YYF is one of the most sensitive companies about intellectual property, as well as one of the most generous with royalties, this argument only holds water with people who are looking for an excuse to hate the “big bad corporate guys”.
Icthus, you’re a grown man and should have known better than to make such vile and damaging accusations without discussing the matter with YYF first. Yes, there is a definite similarity. But there is also an awful lot of speculation that you’re relying on to come to your conclusion, the largest being that YYF are thieves.
Next time you get a wild hair to start a witch hunt, stop for a minute and try acting like an adult.
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Haterz gonna hate.
Steve, we understand that YYF might have come up with the design by themselves. But it seems Fishy when he leaked a picture 2 years ago , and then this design comes back looking like the exact same yoyo.
Also, why are you talking down on Icthus. This is a thread where we share our ideas. He wasn’t saying that YYF copied the design, he was assuming they did. He didn’t exactly know or not because YYF never stated until now.
Steve I tried to talk to yyf. All Ben did was avoid answering me. More than once. What does that tell you? He’s too busy? No. not for a two minute explanation. If you think someone can come up with exactly the same shape and neither having seen it? I don’t think so. It’s way too close the the muffin top. Also I didn’t mean he’s not telling anyone or he’s not showing anyone. I know that at least 200 or more people have seen it, Taken pictures of it and so on. If it would be somewhat similar then I would have yelled copy. But it’s just the same yoyo out of plastic. I don’t see how you can’t see that. Are you blinded by your loyalty to YYF?
if Ben is dodging around talking about it, then yes, something is fishy.
that’s really all I want to say, I prefer to stay out of these things…
I’ve always thought Yoyofactory’s business practices and morals were fishy… however, a yo-yo is what you make of it and in my opinion; to the very core, it’s a toy.
There’s no longer any need to spend needless time comparing models to eachother, it’s a hobby. We don’t get involved when electronics companies bicker and steal designs from eachother and they’re even more corporate and corrupt than Yoyofactory.
There will always be accusers and there will always be fanboys and devout consumers willing to contest them. I’m sure Yoyofactory isn’t the only company that’s ever done anything in the eye of business rather than community and I’m sure they won’t be the last.
I’m done bitching about Ben’s company and Ben himself. I’ve had a good year of it and even my personal boycott of their products has never gotten me anywhere but limiting my personal business because I refuse to do business with people where a profit might be in my best interest.
Let them do as they please, I’m sure if it was really a legal issue then Russell might have been able to do something.
But it isn’t and he can’t, neither can you.
I’m tired of fighting an invisible war against a company that doesn’t even know its adversary and I’m tired of losing money and playability on a company who’s products are worth a lot more than I’ll ever give them credit for.
That’s all I’ll ever say about it, I’m done with my little war.
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“Seems fishy” and “they copied it” aren’t the same thing. This thread (as well as the one Icthus started on another forum) was an outright accusation without any facts to back it up, other than two similar designs. Which, as it’s been established time and time again, happens purely by accident and with alarming frequency in the yo-yo community. And as I said before, the YYF Replay has a LOT more in common with the Henrys Lizard mods that a lot of us used to do than it does with a prototype that Russ Andert made a couple of years ago that barely saw the light of day.
I like Russ, and of the two yo-yos I’ve thrown of his they were simply amazing. But considering how much new technology YYF has contributed to the industry in such a short time, doesn’t anyone else find it unlikely that they would steal something from someone else? Or is everyone just looking for a reason to hate the big, faceless corporate entity?
As for talking down to Icthus, he started a witchhunt. The way that he’s approached all of this is the pinnacle of unacceptable for a reasonable adult. And the idea that Ben wouldn’t want to take a minute to talk with him after Icthus already passed judgment and then spread it around as far and wide as he could…to be fair to Ben, I wouldn’t have a word for the dude either. Someone who’s willing to crucify you on a whim isn’t going to leap up to apologize when they’re proven wrong. And they generally aren’t going to actually listen to anything you have to say anyway. Assuming Ben replied and said “We didn’t steal anything from Russ, the similarity is unfortunate but this is a concept we came up with completely on our own” do you actually think Icthus is going to believe him?
My loyalty to YYF does not include covering up for plagiarism. In fact, my loyalty to ANYONE doesn’t extend to things like that, so please take a moment and consider that you just tremendously insulted my integrity and values.
As for him being too busy for a two minute explanation, it took Ben 4 tries, 2 broken planes, and an overnight stay in Texas to get home. To my knowledge, he just got home this afternoon and is a little more interested in spending some time with his wife than answering to someone who was pretty happy to just out-and-out convict him, publicly, in multiple places, before actually contacting him.
Frankly, with the way you’ve acted so far, you deserve absolutely nothing from him or anyone else employed by YYF. If I was actually employed by them, I’d be ignoring you too.
Lucky for you, I’m just a guy they like and made a couple of yo-yos for. 
Yes, it’s absolutely unfortunate that YYF came up with this concept on their own, and got a product to market before Russ could release his. I mentioned before, I love and respect Russ’ work and his quality is always top notch. But this insistence that it’s somehow impossible for two people to approach a similar problem and reach the same conclusion is just ludicrous. I just watched both YoYo Factory and YoYoRecreation release yo-yos completely independently of each other, at almost the exact same time, that were remarkably similar…and both of them almost identical to a yo-yo that Takeshi has been working on for years. I’ve seen Chris from CLYW share a picture of a new shape he’s about to release, and then watched YYF bail on releasing a yo-yo that was nearly identical that they already had in the works.
I’ve been in this industry for 15 years, and I can’t even begin to count how many times I’ve seen this exact same scenario play out…and I can say that only twice has it ever been the result of actual malice or theft.
I realize that it’s easy to oversimplify this and assume it’s the big guy trying to crush the little guy, but the simple fact of the matter is that no one did anything wrong, no one is trying to hurt anyone (except you), and this is simply a matter of simultaneous discovery…another in a long line of such instances in yo-yo design.
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i dont believe that yyf would steal a design like that.
i am not a fanboy either
Not to add too much more to this discussion (debate?) but look at the Loop 900, the body is or is NEARLY the exact same as the Yomega Raider, however with the turnkey response technology, no one seems to complain. Look those two are in relatively the same price range, made of the same material, yet no one is screaming THIEF. Now the Replay LOOKS like a rehashed, plastic with an innovative way to house the weight rings, clone of the Muffin Top. The two are NOT in the same price range, NOT made of the same material, SIMILAR shaped yoyos; yet everyone who has been pointing fingers at YYF lately because they are mass producing yoyos and other companies are having trouble keeping up starts screaming thief. To be Honest I don’t get it, it is not a legal issue, and who really cares, if you don’t approve of the model, don’t effing buy it. Simple as that.
this
The shape is so similar I don’t know what to think… but YYF is a decent company in terms of coming up with their own ideas, and they had ideas taken by Auldey and Aoda (The stacks on a 888-like yoyo)
So… I’m not assuming anything. Let’s just wait and see what YYF has to say okay?
BTW, the reason, as I understand it, that Auldey and Aoda are “allowed” to copy yoyos is because the copyright thing doesn’t extend to china, where the companies are based, right?
In short, yes. US Patent laws/limitations only extend to the US, therefor any company based out of another country are not restricted by said patent laws/limitations.
i agree! It just gives more for the people who actually like it and want to buy one! Like Me! ;D
Expect a video of me and my replay this weekend depending on my schedule
Why everybody say that muffin top shape is so special and unique??
Design is pretty simple and you don’t to be genius to invent it. I had idea about shape like this before and i think it was pretty stupid.
I’m glad that Steve wrote here he closed this topic for me.
i think this debate won’t end unless both YYF and Russel talk to us about this matter.
we did nothing but start to hate each other.
i like to think the same way as this.
there’s an old saying; great men think alike.
yoyo design these days seems pretty similar to each other.
latest that shocked me is the weerd minute and any YYR. also the weerd irony and the yoyoskeel stalker.
Big picture … Everybody is a winner , yyf sells a bunch of Replays , Community has a good starter yoyo for cheap , and if a metal verison comes out it has a instant fan base where it may have not before , great exposure … Universe unfolds as it should …
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Why are all of you are so mad about the replay, if Steve Brown said YYF didn´t copy it then they didn´t, if you want to blame a company that copies yoyos go blame aoda.