I rarely go deep into reviews before a purchase. I have a pretty good idea of what I will like and quality in general is so high these days, getting a lemon is not a concern for me.
I do like to read other people’s perspectives once I have tried something for myself, either to confirm something or get a different perspective that will enhance my appreciation. The more the better.
Bahaha i wish i didnt feel this so deeply
There was a time where me and @nightshadow disagreeing about things was a constant occurrence… but I couldn’t agree MORE with everything he wrote in this thread. It is a simple fact that people just getting into this hobby do not have the experience needed to properly judge a yoyo, and more importantly (!!!) they simply have not tried an acceptable number of throws to form an educated opinion based on comparison. For example: if a new player has only tried a few different bimetals, and they get a new bimetal, review it and say “This is the best bimetal ever!” or “This is the best bimetal I’ve ever used!” …that opinion DOES NOT hold a whole lot of water, because they’ve tried so few bimetals, and probably yoyos in general. And someone who is a bit newer who comes a long and reads that review might make a purchase based off of that review, only to discover down the line that the yoyo they bought is just kinda… whatever compared to other bimetals. This happens literally all the time, I can’t even tell you.
Wouldn’t you rather have the opinion of the experienced player who has tried SEVERAL hundred, if not thousands of different throws, and can easily tell you to “skip those few, this yoyo is the best version of all of those” or something similar? I’ve unfortunately learned this lesson the hard way, acquiring hundreds of throws myself based off of recommendations I probably should’ve avoided, and now those yoyos just kinda sit untouched.
Just to really solidify my point… if I’m looking for the best steakhouse, do I want the opinion of someone who just recently started trying different steakhouses and has only been to Outback and Sizzler? Or do I want the opinion of someone who’s travelled the country/world and has been to pretty much everywhere you can think of, from Mastros to even the family run places. Same thing with yoyos.
I think fixating on beginner reviews unnecessarily polarises/exaggerates this discussion tbh. I don’t particularly care personally for beginner reviews because they’re pretty obviously not going to hit the key points I want to know about as an intermediate yo-yoer.
Yeah, if you’re at the point where 20 more hours of play will notably change your skill level, you’re probably too early on to give more than surface level observations (to be clear, it’s still fine for new yo-yoers to discuss how yo-yos play, this should go without saying). But I don’t think that’s really what people mean when they talk about non-advanced throwers giving reviews.
Being a capable and skilled player in itself does very little to make your reviews more useful. Being good at something does not lead to being good at talking about something. They’re different skillsets and, while being a skilled thrower means it is possible for you to discuss more aspects of a yo-yo’s play, it doesn’t inherently make your reviews helpful (for anyone, of any skill level). This applies to all walks of life, not just yo-yoing.
Imo, intermediate level players are very capable of giving insightful and useful reviews for people of skill levels both much lower and higher than their own. More experience with different designs and a higher level of skill can elevate the insight further but the most important thing in how useful a review is, is always going to be how clearly you can communicate information.
Before I respond here, I want to say that I completely respect you, and I think your response here is reasonable. I tried to present my argument in a fairly inoffensive way, but it’s a touchy subject, and by taking the stance I do, there are going to be some sore toes. I totally get it.
I would also like to add that this response is going to be my last on the subject. Any more of yours, I will certainly read, as I am sure they are worthy additions to the conversation.
I am happy to DM you if you’d like to further discuss this interesting issue.
(My response):
I think that you might be continuing to make this argument because you are one of those that likes the feeling of being a beginner and consuming reviews from someone similar.
I did not know you were a newer thrower but this further supports the above categorization. One that is common enough that I predicted and described it in my first post before I knew anything about you.
But, it is reasonable, and I completely understand.
But I would like to point out a couple things.
Correct. But, if you read my original post, you will see that I made a preemptive address against this thread of thought by explicitly stating that an advanced reviewer who only discusses advanced tricks and concerns is not doing a good job.
Of course a good reviewer should discuss concerns relevant to beginners as well.
Only an advanced yoyoer has had the experience of being a beginner and working through common beginner issues, AND having the technique to understand if a yo-yo really is or isn’t good for those things.
You know, I happen to be a former beginner myself! And as such I can confidently react to this by saying:
“….what?….”
Speak for yourself, but I was starting out, there was definitely more than feelings that went into picking my first yo-yos.
Given that I have witnessed first hand the effects that a negative review on a yo-yo can have, I am absolutely going to stand by the following analogy:
Is it “gatekeeping” to force someone to know how to drive before they get behind the wheel on their own?
This is really the only part of your response that I’m not too fond of, and I think given the fact that most of what came before it is reasonable, it is rather incongruous with the rest of your post.
Addressing this sentiment is simply a matter of asking you to reread my original post and realizing that I never said that beginner throwers do not have a right to an opinion, but rather that they refrain from spreading their negative views on a particular product in the form of a review, as they could be an inaccurate and damaging portrayal.
(Closing):
I totally understand where you’re coming from, and have probably not succeeded in changing your mind. And that’s all good!
I think your posts are consistent, coherent, and with the exception of your concluding sentiment, a reasonable response to what I’ve said.
I wish you a great deal of joy with you yoyoing and review consumption, and hope you learn some awesome tricks today.
PS, if you want some free strings, hit me up. I’ve got some made that you might like.
I can see logic in this, but I don’t entirely agree.
What you need to review a yoyo well is understand yoyo design really well, not just play. You may not be able to do horizontal tricks like the best Japanese players, but you can know the design features that allow it or allow this model to be better for it than another than. Same thing goes tech tricks etc.
I look at reviews for vacuum cleaners before I buy them i don’t consider whether the person writing is a highly skilled vacuumer. I want to know design features ease of use, power, durability etc. This may be a bad example lol.
I do totally agree that they are subjective, but doesn’t everyone understand that before they read a review on anything at all?
I do think that yoyo reviews are not particularly informative though. Many people seem to think their new yoyo is their best yoyo and review it very quickly.
Real life, related example: Literally before buying my last vacuum, I went on YouTube and found a few vacuum reviewing SPECIALISTS who have tried/used and compared an enormous amount of vacuums over the years, and pit them against each other in multiple different ways in almost a shootout style. I wasn’t placing much weight on reviewers who just bought one vacuum and reviewed it, I wanted to get the opinion of someone who has used more vacuums than I’ve ever seen in my life. I didn’t want to pay attention to the review of one person who has only owned one vaccum before and it’s like “Yup, this works great”… I’m sure it does, but how does it compare to all the ones you didn’t try/buy? That’s exactly what I want from a review, a well informed opinion based on comparison from other products.
I don’t know why this is so controversial lol… it’s been said time and time again by ultra well respected people within our community:
There’s obviously more where that came from as this has been a discussion for a long time - my opinion is nothing new. I think it just strikes a nerve with those who are newer.
And one last thing…
I do agree with this very heavily, it’s a huge problem with yoyo reviews specifically. Because:
So yeah… I guess my point is that no matter what way you want to mentally arrive at yoyo reviews being pointless is… at the end of the day they’re pretty pointless lmfao
That’s intense, man.
Eh, not really… you just hop on YouTube and type “vacuum shootout” or “X Vacuum vs Y Vacuum” and it’s not too hard to find the results you’re looking for lol. A good, quality vacuum is not only expensive but something you’ll have for a really long time. And if you have pets, you know it’s important to have a REALLY good one, so the time to research one isn’t a big deal.
And after years of buying 200+ yoyos I probably shouldn’t have, I wish I would’ve listened closer to the people I now thoroughly trust instead of just buying whatever Joe Shmoe on the forums thought was a good yoyo, only to later find out they struggle to get through a basic combo 
But I guess at the very least having that many yoyos does give me a bit more of an informed opinion when I get a new throw - it’s good to have them all to compare it to, ya know?
I just want to add that there are non play related characteristics that are worth hearing about in a review. Quality, durability, etc. Don’t need to be good at yoyoing to recognize these things.
Yes, it’s most definitely a loss imo.
Definitely true!
Well said
Honestly yoyo is super super subjective and preference driven. Being good at yoyo does not mean you know what makes a yoyo good nor that the yoyo a good player uses is good just what they are used to and have preference around.
That’s irrelevant to me because I’m not asking for someone to make a decision for me, I’m gathering info to make my own decision. I’ll decide what i want and why 
Again, if you can’t read a review and consider the source and whether or not you’re even the target audience, that says more about you (collective) than the reviewer.
Thank you and I you. You were very respectful and I’m not offended or sore in any way. It’s just a discussion.
I don’t, actually, I think(?) I go to youtube for reviews and look to Thomas at Throws n Brews, Dylan Kowalski, and Nate Martsolf because they present the info in looking for to inform my decision. I just think there’s room for other reviews that may benefit someone other than me. Again, my entire point is just not to close doors, just know that simply because a door is open to you doesnt mean it leads where you need it to. But that doesn’t make it a less valid path for someone else. If someone doesnt like a review or think a reviewer has credentials, they dont have to engage.
Yes but my point on that was ppl progress to a point where you dont actually remember the beginner perspective. Your mind is just in a different place
I mean that’s fair, ppl do it all the time with all sorts of things. Ppl also buy exotic sports cars when they live somewhere where the highest speed limit is 55. There’s always some who wants the best even if they can’t push it that far, but that’s not everyone. You can give someone a yoyo that can spin for a few minutes but if they can only get 30 seconds of spin time, the objective fact that it CAN spin longer is irrelevant
No, that’s a safety issue. If you replace a safety issue with one where no one gets hurt, id then argue yes, it is
I apologize if ANY of my responses came accross as disrespectful, that was never my intent. I have the utmost respect for everyone in this community and i just want to see it stay as open, welcoming, and inclusive as it has been to me so far.
Hey that’s ok! It’s all good constructive discourse!
I tried one, and left a review 
I’m on your waiting list!
Sounds good, you do you man… I’ve just been on these forums for 15 years and have seen this movie before is all (a lot) lol… Ultimately just trying to save people from spending tons of money on tons of mid throws. Enjoy the journey man.
I thought the general consensus these days was that it’s harder to find a bad throw than a good one, so why does it matter?
Also, i don’t want to just seem like a steamroller and not give your side proper consideration. So if we go that route and say only certain ppl should be able to give reviews, who decides the criteria and if you decided the official criteria, what would you make it?
Kinda surprised to see no one has tagged me in this thread
It’s always funny how many people can tell me directly to my face I should stop reviewing Yoyos because it’s all subjective and ultimately a lost cause. It’s not lost on me the subjectivity of enjoyment of yoyos and ultimately it is the final deciding factor of whether or not someone likes a yoyo, but if you watch my videos I spend about 90% of them describing the yoyo and 10% saying whether or not I like it.
But I’ve always stood that there is some objectivity to yoyo. Maybe not in the personal “fun factor” and especially in a final rating, but things like how powerful or fast a yoyo is don’t magically change because another player picked up the yoyo. That’s just not how physics works. If a bodybuilder picks up and moves 50lbs like it’s nothing while a skinny teenager struggles to move it even once, that doesn’t magically mean that 50lbs isn’t 50lbs.
In my experience when people disagree about those sorts of play qualities there’s about an 80% skew where the people disagree because one has less experience and is less informed. The other 20% is disagreeing about what a certain play quality is (i.e “floaty is when no rimweight” or “floaty is when it feels really light”)
If there truly was nothing “objective” about yoyos then yoyos like the 888, Draupnir, and Shutter wouldn’t be highly-regarded classics. Something tangible made those yoyos best sellers that would be remembered in yoyo history, it wasn’t just some mythical x-factor or that the community was universally like “yea aight these are ICONIC.” Something made those yoyos special and unique enough to become certified classics.
as for actual REVIEWS
For sure there are lots of Yoyo reviewers that really keep it simple, cut and dry “it spin good” without getting into it, but for me the point of my videos is to tell someone “this is how this gyroscope plays, it moves fast, lacks some power, and in these instances, it’s a bit unstable” it’s not to tell someone “this yoyo good”.
My videos don’t exist to convince someone to buy a yoyo. They exist to tell someone “Hey this is how this is, it’s like this in these ways. I like it.” Even when it’s a yoyo that was sent to me for the sake of a video.
In the Thruline video I’m working on I even have a disclaimer about how yeah, I love the Thruline, but the Thruline has been polarizing and I may be in a minority with enjoying the Thruline.
There’s a reason my video titles are “Overview & Review” and not “Review”
Also, reviews in general are fine. Reviews help people make informed purchases outside of just “I’ll just stick with what I know”.
Reviews are what got me to quit wearing vans when I was working jobs walking on cement all day because it’s actually not normal to have pain so bad I needed to dip my feet in cold water when I got home for the day 
Yup, that’s not wrong - it is harder to find “bad” throws, but it’s also very easy for a beginner to recommend a throw that would be bad for someone else’s use case/what kind of tricks they’re looking to do. Example: Intermediate Thrower Timmy comes on here asking for a recommendation for a yoyo that would be good to learn horizontals. Beginner Thrower Joe just blurts out that their favorite yoyo for everything (and one of the very few they’ve tried/owned) is a Panorama or some other slimline organic yoyo… Intermediate Thrower Timmy buys it and is disappointed when it sucks at horizontals. Also, while there are few “bad” yoyos there are more “mid” yoyos than pretty much anything else. The truly great yoyos are rare and it takes using A LOT of yoyos over a long period of time to know what they are. More experienced players (both in skill and in # of yoyos used) can give better recommendations to beginners because they understand the wide range of different yoyo preferences and play styles, and can better tailor their recommendation to the player after understanding that players goal, as they have likely been there themselves.
Well the general consensus from people who didn’t just join the hobby within the past year is: (1) Someone who is not a beginner to intermediate thrower, (2) someone who has extensively used at least a couple hundred yoyos (honestly to me this is still a very low bar lol), and is (3) obviously decent at conveying their thoughts well. Unfortunately most yoyo reviewers do not fall into at least two of these categories… luckily, @KirbyRobot who just posted above me, falls into all three of these categories and is one of the few people I would actually trust for a reccomendation.
That’s a direct question, not a review.
That feels a bit condescending but the appeal to the masses was extra. I just wanted your personal opinion.
What’s the line? What trick should i learn to be considered not intermediate or beginner?
So you want someone to spend years and thousands of dollars to be able to give their opinion out loud with the goal of saving everyone else those years and dollars?? Yikes
