What is a Mint Condition Yo-Yo Anyway?

I started to post this in “trader feedback” section, but it did not fit within the rules (Mods move as appropriate), so here goes:

I decided to post this because overall I have had a positive trade experience. But, even when I have given positive feedback, I have had one particular consistent issue with several people, that has now turned into a pet peeve. People are describing throws as “mint,” when they are clearly not in mint condition. I decided to make a post, because I have the belief that all these people are not being inaccurate on purpose. They likely do not know the true definition of “mint.” Therefore, I decided to post here so that people can be informed of what that really means.

A yo-yo that has even a tiny hairline scratch, or tiny knick, is not a mint condition yo-yo. Any slight mark, however slight, renders the yo-yo in a condition other than “mint.” It may still be proper in that case to describe the yo-yo as being in “great” condition or “very good” condition or even “excellent” condition for a used yo-yo. Then, simply detail the extent of the minor damage involved and take a photo. Even if the yo-yo came to you brand new with damage on it, you should list the damage.

I pulled out my dictionary to get the definition of “mint.” “Mint” in this context, is defined in Webster’s Dictionary as:

“being in it’s original, unused condition, as if newly made.”

Therefore, if you do not have a yo-yo that looks brand new, you should describe it in a way other than the word “mint.” I do not have 20/20 vision, and within ten seconds of receiving a yo-yo, I can spot the damage on it if there is any damage. I believe others can too, and those who cannot, should look at the yo-yo under light or use a magnifying glass to inspect it thoroughly before they describe it in a post. Or, use another set of eyes to make sure and have someone else look at it too.

I think if we clear this up, there will be a lot less people disappointed with transactions. I want to be one of them. I have not made a big deal of this because when it has happened, the damage has been relatively minor. It just helps to know ahead of time what to expect, and it is more fair to properly negotiate a price for the used yo-yo.

Was I the only one having this issue?


I didn’t know there was an issue with the definition really. Mint means perfect. Simple as that. I find it hard to believe people really don’t know. I have, once or twice recieved a “mint” yoyo that was not mint. I attributed this to their lying in order to make a sale and I demanded my money back. Got it, both times.

I just really think either people aren’t inspection the yo-yo closely enough, or they are not sure of the definition…no malicious intent really. The damage is usually very minor in the cases I’ve experienced, I just would have wanted to know ahead of time.

A much bigger issue, for me, is other little ommissions that are much more prevelant and much harder to define. Like, I’ll get a yoyo that is as described, but with a bearing that’s almost completely junk. Technically, they didn’t lie. It is a 10 ball bearing. Maybe the one it came with. But it’s useless to me and they knew it. Or vibe. Even “mint” yoyos can have vibe, so it’s really tricky. More than once I’ve gotten a mint vibey throw.

I always assume the person knew about it. Sometimes I even try to ask about it in a general way so I can cover all issues, and these things are still ommitted from the reply. Personally, I don’t know how people can do it. I just can’t sell stuff I don’t know to be either perfect, or perfectly described. I’ve even given people some of my best bearings just to make sure they’re happy with their purchase. I feel like that is the way business should be done, and this attitude is what needs to be instilled in people who are thinking about selling privately.

But I don’t even buy used anymore, at least on here. Too many bad experiences. Either people don’t know or don’t care. I’m a member of other forums where I’ve always had much better deals.

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I agree completely about the vibe issue and the yo-yo guts being crap. “Mint” also applies to the insides of the yo-yo, and all parts involved. If you are selling a mint yo-yo, it should be mint inside and out, including the bearing and response. I have also had one transaction where there was the “mint” issue and the “vibe” issue together. If someone knows the yo-yo does not play as it should, they should post about it. Some people don’t mind vibe so much, so maybe, if they were honest, they could find a buyer who would be happier with the vibey yo-yo, then they could negotiate a fair price for it, and it would be a more positive transaction for everyone involved. Now, I never buy a used yo-yo that is available new. The only ones I buy used are yo-yos that have been discontinued.

Good point about “all involved”.

What it seems like is that some people think by ommitting this information, they are helping themselves to get a better price and quicker sale…but that’s usually not the case. When I’ve been the buyer in these cases, I won’t shut up about it until I get a refund. It’s never had to come to a Paypal claim, but I would go there. It ends up being worse than if they’d never sold it.

Even if it doesn’t seem like it, being a better seller helps YOU as a seller. It’s not just your feedback, but the ease with which your deals go. I even have a few customers personally who seem to want to buy from me again and again because they like the way I do business. That would never happen and I might not have sold those future yoyos so easily if I hadn’t made a good name for myself to start.

PLUS, it just feels good to be a good seller. I’ll take a $5 cut because of an accurate description any day over those extra $5 and the feeling that I cheated someone.

I further agree about the consequences of not describing the item accurately, and the way it affects future sales. Even when I did not file a claim (always deal through Paypal), I remembered the usernames of the people who were failed to give the whole story about the yo-yo. For example, I will never forget the guy who sold the yo-yo with the very noticeable vibe. I too believe that in that particular case, it was about it being a quick sale, and getting some quick cash. It seems like you need a text book to deal with these kinds of people.

It’s like when you get a yo-yo with the noticeable vibe, you say to yourself, "I won’t make a big deal, but from now on, I’ll ask about the way it plays and if there is vibe.’

Then, when you get a yo-yo from someone that was not mint, has scratches they tried to polish out, you say to yourself, “From now on I will give them the disclaimer that if there is even a slight scratch, I will be asking for a refund.”

Then, you deal with the guy who sends you the “mint” yo-yo with the crap bearing. Then, you say to yourself, “From now on, I’ll ask if the original bearing is in there and the condition of it.”

Then, you deal with the guy who sends you the “mint” yo-yo with the crap response. Then, you say to yourself, “Next time I’ll ask the condition of the response system.”

Now, as a result of these experiences, when I make an offer it looks something like this:

I might be willing to offer you X for your “mint” blah blah, but that is only if the yo-yo has not the slightest damage, even a hairline scratch, the original response and bearing in new condition. And, if it has a lot of vibe, I will not be interested in it either. So tell me, how does it play, and what is the condition of the bearing and response?

You can tell when they don’t write back…what the deal is, especially cause I only do Paypal and protect myself. If I really want that yo-yo, I will make the effort, but I agree, I have slowed down a lot with buying used yo-yos.

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I completely agree with this statement.

Yep :D. Sounds like me before I just decided to write off the BST as a buyer for good. I guess the other forums I deal on are higher priced items and maybe people feel more of an obligation to be up front there. Whatever it is, there’s an issue here that needs to be addressed if we’re all experiencing this. It’s not this way everywhere.

Hopefully someone with some power will take note of it and see if there’s not something they can do.

Being “mint” means that it should be in the condition of which something would be released by the mint. It originated as a term in which coins left the mint in the state of new condition.

Otherwise, it would have to have no aesthetic damage to the actual pre-owned product.
I’m not going to lie. There are types of people on the board that do not represent items in such stated conditions, whether they may be dishonest or even negligent (I’ve seen this to be more common with younger traders).

People may state the definition of mint in different ways. I am pretty lenient with my description of mint. Let’s say that the response or bearing was changed and I call it mint (which I do, since I feel that this doesn’t personally matter. How hard is it to acquire either?); this situation may be disagreeable with others, but I feel justified doing such because the physical condition of the item is still undamaged.

There are terms such as:

  • NIB (new in box; unopened and untouched)
  • MIB (used in box; may have been opened and handled)
  • MISB (mint in sealed box; same as NIB)
  • NMIB (near mint in box; opened and used; may have very minimal damage)

I’ve been on eBay and BST forums of many variety for the past 7 years.
Nothing really designates outside these condition factors.
In some cases, such as the wristwatch forums, people use percentage value, based on the TimeZone scale.

I still think that about 90% of this is people not checking good and not knowing the definition of mint. I think the other 10% are people who know better. But, I have to admit that I have blamed myself for some of it, because I did not ask specifically about the inside of the yo-yo. I guess the part me that thinks they should have disclosed certain aspects, I also think that I had an opportunity to ask, but didn’t. Now, I ask to cover all the bases. The trouble is, if I ask, as I posted above, it comes across to a seller with good intentions as someone difficult to deal with. But, you can’t describe all this to someone when trying to make a deal. I agree with Stookie about that point of realization. I have cut down and limited myself to getting the must have stuff that is no longer available. But, I still have the same dilemma as I want those items as they were when released in new condition. Those are hard to find under the circumstances. I agree that things are easier in the context of an auction for some reason, as I have seen less of this in that context.

Nothing wrong with giving accurate feedback to people. If you decide to keep a yoyo that was described as mint and is not, you can include this in the feedback even if you flag it as positive. If people know that someone has a habit of describing non mint yoyos as mint, others will be less likely to trade with them or know to ask more in depth questions. I know, I know, we all hate to leave anything negative in the feedback section unless we really get the short end, after all we feel kind of like family. Good, accurate feedback helps everyone and protects everyone.

I think if we all would leave more accurate feedback problems like this would self regulate a bit, they never will go away completely, but it would be better.

Good point about the comments. I did use that method with the case of the vibey throw cause that, in addition to the condition of the yo-yo itself seemed excessive. I guess a person investigating whether to go into a deal will read all comments regarding the transaction history. I didn’t put it in the main comments, but I put it in the detailed comments instead. You are correct in detailing the reasons I didn’t want to make a federal case about it, though I was disappointed.

It is indeed disappointing when you believe that someone is being upfront and honest with you, and discover you were decieved, even if it’s just a little.

Once you discover those that are totally honest and complete in their descriptions, it’s amazing how often you check their bst threads v.s. others.

skitrz is spot on for once. :smiley: This seems like a good opportunity to recycle this picture:

It really is a bummer when you get something in a condition you weren’t expecting, and all the more disappointing when the person you received it from wont take responsibility for it. I think your interpretation of 90% of this being unintentional is very generous, Totalartist, but it is very nice of you to give people the benefit of the doubt.

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I almost fell out of my chair laughing at the above pic. :smiley: I hadn’t seen that one before Jrod, so I got a kick out of that. But, some of you guys are right, by not calling people on it, we perpetuate the problem. There are ways of alerting others when it occurs, and it makes them think twice about doing it the next time.

But, there seems to be a flaw in the feedback system. A lot of people don’t give a negative when they should, because they could get a negative in return, although they fulfilled their end of the bargain.

For example, Person A buys a throw from Person B. Person A paid via paypal, and waited for person B to mail out. In my opinion, at this point in the transaction, Person A should have a positive feedback and should not have to wait for it as they fulfilled their part of the agreement and are not expected to do anything further to complete the transaction. Person B then ships out, but the throw is not received as described. Person A can give Person B a negative, but because Person A has not received feedback yet despite keeping his end of the deal…Person A does not want to give a negative because Person B can reciprocate the negative. Person B can give a negative and just state something random, or no comment at all.

The auction site prevents this now, as a buyer cannot receive a negative after paying within the time required, because proof of payment is documented in Paypal. It is then on the seller to ship the item as described and finish the transaction.

I have never dealt with that, but do Mods get involved in fixing false or inaccurate feedback details?

Haha, you should see his Code 2’s.

a conversation i had with one of my friends the other day (she doesn’t yoyo)

Me-Are you going to eat your waffle?

Friend-No, you can have it.

Me-Is it mint?

Friend- …what?

Me- …have you eaten any of it yet…

I believe this photo needs a bit of work and I’m a little disappointed in Jrod for the hurried pic. I believe the one on the left should read “nearer mint” and the one on the right “near mint” with some mints placed strategically in regards to proximity, next to them. Yep Jrod, you dropped the ball on that one ;D .

hahaha… It took me a while to get that. I’m going to write with a sharpie “mint” on all of my perfect condition yoyos so I can remember which ones they are.