What is "mint"?

General Yo-Yo
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So, I just saw a post on a different site BST group. It was a picture of a dozen or so throws, all in a cardboard box. All were strung up and obviously played with. The text accompanying the listing stated all were “mint with box”. Now, how can you call something “mint” when it’s been played with?

Mint, as I have been told, comes from the coin collecting hobby. Where it refers to a brand-new, never circulated coin from the US Mint. Flawless, unblemished condition.

To me, and this is obviously my opinion on the issue, a throw is only mint if it is new, in the original box, never been thrown, hasn’t been strung up and only taken out of the original box for inspection/pictures. If it’s been strung up for a test throw and returned to the box, i’d consider that near mint. once it’s been used, then that’s it. i personally couldn’t call something mint or even near mint if it’s been in the rotation. it may be beautiful, no dings, no marks, no flaws but at that point it is USED. not mint. call it excellent condition. call it flawless condition. dead smooth, no dings, no marks. great, still not “mint”.

am i too particular? does anyone else put this much thought into it? or, like me, do you see the word “mint” in the description and promptly disregard it because it’s obviously been used. it’s a term that seems to get added to most every BST description and I feel like it’s just dishonest for most listings.

thoughts?

enjoy the throw my friends
kgb

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You often see MIB or NIB.
New is new no question :smile: (I also had new yo-yos which did not arrive perfect)
I consider mint also if somebody bought tried and did not like a new release.
NMTBS fits for me if it is 5 years plus release but it is in very good condition (no clue what the measure is here. Raw e.g. has always some light hair scratches. But definitely not dinged)
Just my „scale“

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I like to put no damage for a description.

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I think price plays a factor as well. If someone is selling a MIB and you can clearly see string on it, but it’s also half off retail I think it’s pretty reasonable

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The trading card valuations also seek to point out manufacturing flaws, card centering, print quality, etc, which may or may not translate well. I like the idea. I have some A-grades that are imperfect, it happens.

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This is what I thought for the descriptions after buying quite a few throws from BST…

New - never thrown, with box.
Dead mint - thrown once or twice, no damage nor vibe.
Mint - have thrown regularly or a few times, but condition is still great, plays smooth.
Near mint - have small scuffings, but no dings, smooth unless stated.
Beat - used as beater, dings, damage, vibe.

Sometimes people ask if the throw has vibe or not, and if the throw is new, the seller might have to throw it once and test it out. New throws are rarely seen on BSTs.

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A few years ago I bought a yo-yo from one of the guys. I had messaged him to ask him about the specific condition of the yo-yo? He got back to me and said yo-yo is New and Mint, just the way he received it.

I bought the yo-yo and he shipped the same day.

About 3 days later I got the package. Perfectly padded/packaged/taped/whatever. The clear tape on the box didn’t even have any wrinkles in it🙀

I decide to wait till after work to open it. So, about 10:30pm West coast time, I got home and opened the box.

The yo-yo had a few small but obvious scratches, a few small ano flaws……and, upon throwing it, it had both fingernail vibe and vibe coming up the string.

I contacted him and asked him about the obvious ‘flaws’? I asked him how his description ‘aligned’ with what I found?

He said, ‘Well, to me, the yo-yo is new and Mint because that is the way I got it. All the damage is from the Factory, I guess. I didn’t cause any of it, so the yo-yo is ‘Mint’ to me.

……I think most people accurately describe their yo-yos, giving details that ‘fit’ the actual condition of a yo-yo.

But some people seem to have their own individual interpretation of what certain descriptive terms/words mean.

Knowing that accurately describing a yo-yo can affect the value causes some folks to ‘fudge’ a little on the honesty scale.

Or…… they just don’t understand the true meanings the words represent.

PS…. How’s this one> Brand new in box, mint, never thrown, never strung, no vibe.

How could you know the vibe level if the yo-yo was never thrown?

:joy:

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I don’t think saying something is used means that it’s not mint, every yoyo is used when you get it. It’s gone through a QC process making it “used”. If it’s damage free then it can quality as mint, even if it has vibe (some companies sell vibey yoyos). However if it does have vibe you should always evaluate and state the vibe condition. Same with surface marks etc. Being transparent is key in an honest transaction

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Coming from other hobbies and collectibles, Mint means it is factory sealed. Even the packaging should be completely free of damage.

As soon as that factory seal is broken, it becomes NM as long as it isn’t used other than to test it.

Excellent means it has been used, but not damaged in any way.

Any damage whatsoever brings it down to Very Good, Good, Poor.

I’m not a fan of NMTBS. It’s too ambiguous.
Just say NM or Excellent if you’ve opened it, but it has absolutely no wear or damage. If it has a single ding, scuff, or scratch, it is Very Good, at best.

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I feel like you just mentioned the biggest gray area of this entire thread. Yoyos, especially high end ones, aren’t sealed goods to begin with. They’re strung up and get thrown during QC, and the packaging is usually just some loose pouch or simple paper box without any seal.

I think descriptor words are mostly meaningless things in yoyo listings used to give a vague idea of the condition at a glance. Having a discussion between the seller/buyer eliminates all of this gray area since we’re not just dealing with a semi-anonymous automatic storefront. You’re making transactions with human beings. You can discuss the condition of the yoyo with during DMs if you’re actually interested in buying it. Dishonesty will happen at this step if there is any, the initial listing I think is just a vague indicator post of what somebody has that they want to sell.

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we’re on the same page.

nice to know i’m not crazy and alone on this.

kgb

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lol

exactly.

kgb

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Agreed. Asking questions goes a long way toward making sure both parties understand each other. When I spend more than $50 on the BST I often ask that the seller give the yoyo a quick once over, e.g. unscrew it, inspect for missed damage, throw before shipping. Haven’t really had a bad experience since I started doing that.

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Perhaps it might be time to update BST rules and clarify / unify grades of yoyos! I frequently trade on reddit’s r/knife_swap and they grade knife quality something like this:

A grade - Never played, strung, taken apart. Only looked at.
B grade - strung and played handful of times, never carried, never taken apart.
C grade - played more than a handful of times or carried, taken apart, bearing cleaned, etc. minimal damage at a glance.
D grade - played or carried, taken apart, bearing modified or opened, minor dings and scratches.
F grade - D but major damage.

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I think there can be more leeway here, unscrewing a yoyo will not damage it, nor will throwing it, this is pretty much what QC is for most companies anyway. Yoyos are thrown, strung, taken apart, half-swapped in some cases, strung again, thrown again… All before they even get boxed up for sale. I mean I throw yoyos that we get in AND take them apart when I take photos. They are still mint unless I make a mistake and drop or ding them.

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Some people use them to freshen their breath :laughing:

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True they can be taken apart without damaging them, but can we leave it to trust that every person can put it back together without damaging the threads? :slight_smile:

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IMO this grading system would cause too much confusion since yoyos themselves are classified as A Grade or B Grade quite commonly, before they ever even hit a BST.

Remember that one dude who wanted to start a company called B Grade YoYos? Lmao… imagine a b grade version of one of that dude’s yoyos for sale on the BST using this system: “Hey guys I got a b grade B Grade in B Grade condition.” :joy::joy::joy:

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Haha agreed. We can use a different label theme instead of “grades” then like colors. Dark green light green yellow orange red maybe?

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There seems to be several opinions in this thread, defining mint as unopened/never used/never strung.
As yoyodoc (and another user or 2) pointed out, the majority of yo-yo’s nowadays come in a basic cardboard box or pouch.
So “unopened” is impossible to ascertain.
The same can be said regarding “never used”-as yoyodoc also mentioned, testing the yo-yo is apart of QC, therefore every high end yo-yo sold today has certainly been strung and thrown.

Furthermore, if a yo-yo has been thrown a couple of times, or strung, with the exception of a possible surface scratch, how would a third party possibly be able to tell by looking at a yo-yo if it has been thrown/strung or not?
Personally, I would not be able to tell by simply looking at a flawless yo-yo if it had ever been strung or not.

I believe if a yo-yo is in flawless condition and indistinguishable from it’s brand new factory condition, (regardless if it’s been strung) I would consider that what is referred to as “mint”
Stringing a yo-yo and then immediately unstringing it has no affect on the yo-yos condition in my opinion.
If it has flaws from the factory, I would consider that poor QC and but not mint.
To me, mint = flawless.

FYI regarding the actual term mint condition.
Coins are produced at a mint and the process of stamping a coin is called “minting”
When a coin is taken off the mint and immediately sealed in a specialty container, preserving it from the elements, maintaining its flawless “mint” condition.
This is the literal term “mint condition” and it’s origin.
It is used in card collecting as well, though to varying degrees and generally on a sliding scale. A card that is graded at 9 out of 10 is still considered mint condition.
Likewise with a mint condition coin, generally that card needs to be placed in a specialty container almost immediately once it’s been printed.

Applying the “mint” terminology in the same literal yo-yo context is a tricky one, coins and cards are singular pieces and yo-yos are made up of several individual parts, which are handled, assembled, quality controlled, and are not placed in specialty containers sealing them from the elements.
That’s my two cents. See what I did there…2 cents…coins…. Thanks, I’ll show myself out.

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