The next step needs to get this on TV and get a big name sponsor. Duncan is not big. Pepsi, Coke, espn, that is what is needed. I wonder how hard it would be to get this held at the wide world of sports at Disney?
worlds has to go global/international to stay legit.
it has to stop being, and I quote, āUS nats with international players allowedā
Other countries are more than willing and able to host the event, this has already been discussed and I hope the lines are already started to move behind the scenes.
All you need is money! You know Disney a bit better than I do, but thatās where the magic comes from.
BUt:
Thereās a valid point there. However, like with Wimbedon tennis tournament, its at the same place all the time, so there are precedents.
Or do we handle this like the Olympic committee? Have a body of executives of an international yoyo group choose the host city each year? All we do is move problems around. Right now, people from outside the US get high travel costs. If we move it around, then the US players(and anyone not in the host country) has to eat high travel costs. Weāre just moving the unfair element around.
All I can say is that if I were a competitive player, Iād be unable to afford to travel to this contest if it was outside the US. Thatās just how things go. Fair or not is not the issue, itās simple economics. But I donāt intend to ever compete.
At the moment, Iām in favor of tradition, but I get your point completely.
Back to TMCertified:
If Curling is televised, then why the heck canāt a yoyo contest? Itās certainly less boring and keeps moving.
Because ANYONE can play curling. For yoyoing, you actually need skill.
That would definitely support the yoyo brand butā¦
Let me up the odds.
They have televised and made a big freakinā deal out of:
Americaās Cup Sailing. Especially that joke of an fiasco where both teams were using boats not in the proper categories.
Golf. Certain times, they FLOOD the market with it. Thereās even a golf channel. Did we really need an entire channel dedicated to watching people wearing ugly pants?
With some of these shows that are on air today, i mean we should be able to have a whole channel dedicated to yoyoing. All contests can be televised, companies can advertise their products, there can be reviews, footage of people throwing. I mean Theres enough to take up a good amount of air time.
I mean id much rather that than shows like ātoddlers and tiarasā which is pretty much a show on which mother can go the lowest to make money off their daughters.
And like Studio said, if golf can be televised, then every other sport/hobby deserves its spotlight
-xICooRsYIx
With yoyos, I know thereās a fair amount of stuff out there.
Comedy Central at first was struggling until they got their format right, but even then, it took a while(3 years) to really know if they were gonna fly or not.
I know there are a pair of movies featuring yoyo. Some āsuper cop girlā or somehting. Plus, they can have the ātutorial hourā where they just show tutorial vids Thereās a lot of coverage of contests, so pick a contest and show clips from it. The stream from Worlds could be broadcast live AND then edited down. Thereās Tom Smotherās material, so take that a step further, get rights to rebroadcast old Smotherās Brothers shows. You gotta padā¦ Commercials get dated fast, models get discontinued. Do āliveā hands on yoyo reviews. Yoyo chat, yoyo radio, whatever.
Keep in mind, MTV was obsessed with Beach MTV in the summer, showing endless garbage after endless garbage. Then, after the run, theyād cut it down to āThe Best of Beach MTVā for each year, which after that run was then in turn re-cut to be āThe Best of the Best of Beach MTVā. Talk about milking a product. Of course, most of you donāt recall or are too young to know, but I was watching MTV when Bon Joviās mega hit āWanted Dead or Aliveā was released. I kid you not, they played that video NON-STOP for over 24 hours(more like 36), only stopping for commercials and sometimes another video. 20 plays in a row broken up by commercials was NOT unusual
But, it wonāt work as a stand alone channel. What would need to happen is something like ESPN or GOLD Network or some other channel with a need to pad their line-up could easily take a 2-4 hour block a few times a week. Even if they come up with a single 2-4 hour block, and then re-broadcast it multiple times during a broadcast week, it would fill two needs: Pad airtime thatās not being well used. Unfortunately, these hours would most likely go on late at night/early morning during infomercial time. This rebroadcast is often called an aircheck since itās already aired and no issues with content, makig it safe. But, since weāre talking yoyo, theyāre gonna want kids to watch it, so it may want to be aired mid-afternoon and possibly on a weekend morning.
Also, going back to the original topic but tying into this. We get Olympic athletes and other ābig sporting event winnersā doing the talk show circuit Trust me when I say this: the variety would be welcomed. Itās fun, itās āfeel goodā not just to us fans of yoyo, itās short enough to keep non-yoyo fans interested and engaged. Leno, Letterman, Conan, Fallon, Rachel Ray, Ellen, the morning shows. If they canāt speak english, bring an interpreter. Wear logo-wear as applicable and practical. The week after Worlds can be a non-stop whirlwind of āyoyo goodwillā for the winners of the major categories as they ātourā the talkshow circuit together.
Itās possible. Improbable, but thereās possibility. Donāt focus a whole channel to it, thatās a losing venture. Get some time from another channel and then fill up that space.
Also, keep in mind a lot of US(the people here and other forums) are making a lot of content. If some people would learn better production methods, theyād be prime for their stuff getting on the air. Have a āhostā yoyo VJ, kinda like the Tosh.0 format a bit, where someone is introducing user-made videos. 1 minute/1 throw, or performance vidsā¦ So many choices.
Want to explain that or should I take it as a statement you believe signature yoyos and yoyo brands donāt put money in players pockets?
Ben, yes I would like to get an explanation of this. But itās not intended as a challenge, but more for my informational purposes. I would certainly like to know about how the yoyo industry works. But I think this might be also good for new throwers(such as myself) who intend to make a real go at this(not me, Iām only in this for recreational purposes) and see what theyād need to do to really make some money at this.
I think the more knowledge weāre willing to share on the topic benefits the community.
I for one donāt necessarily subscribe to supporting signature models directly. But, I have developed some preferences and well, some of them do happen to be signature models. Taking a step further I really like the YYJ Hiroyuki Suzuki models, they just seem to work really good for me. A few of my YYF models are signature models: DieNasty(glowing), Protostar(John Ando), Northstar(Jensen Kimmit). I mean, itās good stuff. Good stuff sells well, regardless of the name put on it. Thereās no denying that attaching a good name to a good yoyo is going to help sales. Letās face it, yoyo companies exist to make money and I for one have no problem with that.
Right now, Iām not interested in any other YYF models than what I already have. Iām also keeping an open mind because if something YYF makes dues become interesting to me, Iām certainly not going to pass it by either, signature or not.
The part I fail to see right now is how money is being put into the pockets of sponsored players. I donāt understand how things are handled, so Iām all for being enlightened to this process.
Again, this isnāt some ācalling outā. This is merely a request for information regarding the topic. People need to know. Personally, Iād rather hear it from yoyofactoryben. Why? Heās one of the people actively putting money into the pockets of players, so Iām going to accept him as an expert. I just want to learn.
Iāll give a big answer when I have some time, but ever since āBrent Dillenger bought a Porsche with Spinmaster 2 moneyā there has been a little money flowing to players from signature yoyos.
Either a percentage or fixed dollar amount per yoyo sold goes to players. If yoyos blow up and we sell 100,000 protostars John Ando would do very well 
Iāll come back and give a longer meatier answer when I have a little more time.
Thanks Ben. Iād appreciate a longer answer, but Iām familiar with licensing and royalty schedules, and so Iāve got pretty much all the answers I need. This is probably based on quarterly reports based on units shipped or based on units reported as retail sold, not Tier1/wholesale sold, correct? And is the scale based on wholesale or retail?
I could go on in regards to āare the payments based against a balance for dollars spent on sponsoring players and associate costs(hotel, per diem, travel) and any overage is paid to the players?ā I know in pro sports, the team owners take care of travel, per diem and hotel, as thatās not counted against a playerās paycheck.
Thereās a good motivation right there to get good and get sponsored, but probably not enough to āquit the dayjobā at this point.
I look forward to the long answer. Not everyone has my knowledge. I work in music, so Iām familiar with this stuff. Itās great that niche-type companies are willing to do this sort of thing.
Now we are into details which will vary by sponsorā¦
But we pay based on units shippedā¦ Independent of any travel associated costs. That being said, they may chose to use that money to travel to other events, as we donāt pay for everyone to be everywhere.
For contests, which is what this topic was about and i really dont want to write a mega post on, we also have performance incentives based on results. We also offer a multiplier on incentives so if you wish to take those payments in the form of travel expenses to other events.
We have other kinds of incentives too but as these help us make a great team, I donāt really want to go into all the details
I think thatās more than sufficient details into how YYF handles their sponsored players and signature throws. Sharing anything further would be too much.
Thanks for sharing, Ben. I appreciate it.
Clearly, YYF is putting money back into players hands. If anyone questions the proof now, then thatās their own problem.
Iāve been following this thread for a bit now and thought Iād post my opinion on the debate of making yo-yoing a bigger thing.
My personal opinion is this:
As yo-yoers, we are deviants because yo-yoing is a thing that isnāt within mainstream community. But itās because of the fact that itās deviant is why it is how it is today? Personally, I like it this way. All this talk about money will change the meaning of this hobby and people will yo-yo for the wrong reasons? You know how in some sports there are major fans and heated rivalries between team cities? You know how there is actually hate amongst the gigantic fanbase in other sports and players argue contracts and cause problems? Itās because of the way that the world praise them and the business. The yo-yo community has the least hate amongst experienced players and the rivalries are extremely friendly at most. That is because weāre deviant, and we run it the way we want to. If major sponsor companies want to sponsor this then what would happen? Think about that.
On to the the topic of players making money and such. Weāre seeing it all wrong. Instead of what he/she should get, we need to think why he/she get what the get. Do you know why professionals are pros? Itās because they yo-yo for the love of the sport and their dedication lands them on these teams. They donāt compete for money, or fame, they compete to see how far theyāve come compared to others. They compete in order to find others just like them. Sure going pro may mean that thereās profit, but pros donāt do it for profit. They do it because of the love of the sport. Look at some yo-yoers that have stopped competing: JD, (Probably) Jensen, Yuuki (it seems like it because he hasnāt competed at all this season), but yet they are still pros? If the yo-yoing community was different with monetary gain and such then companies might kick them off the team, but they havenāt. Itās because weāre not a mainstream thing.
Mainstream attention will only corrupt the yo-yo world and we will lose the original reason why we throw: to have fun.
Hope that made sense and was actually on topic.
Great post ccn411
You have hit the nail on head and this is an issue many players face. Ultimately there is not the money in e industry to support as many pros as there are top level players. There comes a big time in everyoneās life when they realize the love doesnāt put the food on the table. Do they walk away? Reduce their involvement? Begin to resent the scene? Embark on an agenda to destroy everything? All legitimate responses I have seen. Some people love yoyo that much they will do anything to make it their life. Some people love yoyo that much they wonāt let their life get in the way of that loveā¦ And the battle rages between both of those sentiments in many more.
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Well, take that to a level we can relate to a bit better:
I think bringing in āringersā, or professional athletes into the Olympics has totally corrupted what it was supposed to be about. Granted, itās not all events, but its enough. There is money changing hands left and right either on or under the table.
Regarding sports rivalries: Could care less. Baseball, football, hockey, basketball, honesty, it all bores me to death, and I worked for an NBA player. āGo this team, go that teamā. No, just go away. But, Iām not a sports fan. The bottom line is that these are money sports, nothing more and nothing less. Players are commodities that are traded like livestock. Tell me it aināt about money after seeing their paychecks. Donāt get me started on how they are overpaid(or most often, not, since they have a much smaller window of income via this means of work).
Some things need to be done out of love of it.
Will the mainstream corrupt yoyo? Chances are it will. It corrupts everything. I think yoyo deserves mainstream attention, but only when and where applicable. Major contests? Yes, for sure, it should be covered on regional news as appropriate.
What has happened when yoyo tried to go mainstream? On Americaās Got Talent: nowhere. You throw, you go. Itās just a matter of when. Why? Face it, itās not headlining/90 minute show/big ticket price material. Accept that. I find it interesting that one year, Piers goes nuts for Eric Koloski, but the next year is cold to Ian Johnson. Granted, two different people and different styles, but you either like it or you donāt. Even I know the yoyo canāt hold an audience that long unless they are specifically there for the yoyo. Yoyo isnāt going to land 2-milllion butts in seats in Vegas or anywhere else for 2-3 shows a day, 5-7 nights a week, 265+ days a year.
Thereās ways we can capitalize on things. However, in the United States, we celebrate mediocrity. Case and point: The American Idol tour. I canāt stand these duds on TV, why the heck do I want to shell out money to see people who make me vomit on TV? But, I would wake up early to see the yoyo champs on the Today Show or Good Morning America. They earned it, let them be kings for a bit. THAT will be what it takes to start getting deep market share and penetration.
For what they DO put on TV, yeah, they can squeeze in some yoyo.
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Ya think? I mean if they enter a contest, even though there isnāt much of a cash prize (if there even is one), then of course they arenāt doing it for the money. If the thrill of victory and bragging rights is all that is on the line, then that is what people will be competing for.
But just because that is how things are now, that doesnāt also mean that players wonāt jump at the chance to compete for real prize money. Iāve talked with a lot of players over the years, and the majority of actual competitors have been pretty keen on the idea. Most of them would love to be able to earn a living off of it.
To be blunt, NO. But I also donāt believe that bigger cash prizes will ruin yo-yoing either. Has big money ruined baseball to the point that kids donāt play the game for fun? Nope. If anything, the dream of getting paid to play in the big leagues only inspires kids to take up the sport. So I donāt see why yo-yoing couldnāt benefit in the same way if there was actual money in competing. Without prize money, competitive yo-yoing is about as significant as playing wall ball in elementary school.
Of course it wouldnāt be. But really, why would anyone want to bother making a yo-yo video game anyways? Yo-yoing already involves hand/eye coordination, so making a video game about it would be completely redundant. It also wouldnāt be as enjoyable as throwing a real yo-yo.
The main reason that simulated skateboarding appeals to people is because it isnāt easy to skateboard in your own home. With yo-yoing, however, we already throw at home. So there is really no point in simulating it.
You never know. Pepsi very well could end up getting behind competitive yo-yoing in the future. All it is going to take is one big name non-industry sponsor, and things will quickly snowball from there. They just need to be sold on the idea, and unfortunately for all of us, our sport isnāt very marketable at this point in time.
If we want to see competitive yo-yoing on TV, then contest organizers need to stop using the same old played out format that theyāve been stuck on for years. Doing 1 minute prelims and 2-3 minute finals doesnāt make this sport more appealing to non-players. There is nothing about it that truly connects with the audience. Heck, even some yo-yo players find yo-yo contests to be boring.
Once contests are run under a more entertaining format, and are packaged in a way that will carry over well to a TV audience, acquiring big name non-industry sponsors will be a whole lot easier. We just need to make our sport more marketable before any of them will take a chance on it.
How does that lead to bigger cash prizes though? Yeah, itās great that some of the money made off of signature yo-yo sales goes to the players. But the manufacturers benefit just as much from that, if not more.
Seriously, if yo-yo companies can release signature yo-yos to support their team members, then why canāt they come out with special releases to help build up bigger cash prizes for contests? Or is something like that just not possible with yo-yoing?
And how is having Worlds take place in the USA every year āfairā to everyone else?
Okay. Since youāve never competed and donāt appear to have any plans to, why should you be given preferential treatment over actual competitors? Considering how Japanese players dominate at Worlds year in and year out, they deserve to host the contest for a change. That would only be fair, IMO.
Youāre a yo-yo player, so of course youāre going to believe that yo-yoing is more entertaining than curling. The general public disagrees with you though. That is why curling is on TV and yo-yoing isnāt.
Anyone can play curling? Are you sure about that? Believe it or not, curling is actually a pretty expensive sport to get involved in. New curling stones cost about $450 each, and used ones will set you back $200-$300 easy. Oh, and you need 16 stones in order to play a game. So no, not just anyone can play.
Also, because curling doesnāt make sense to you, that doesnāt mean that there is no skill involved in the sport. There is a definite strategy to the game, and if you have ever sat down and watched it, itās actually pretty entertaining.
So just because you fear that bigger cash prizes will cause people to take up yo-yoing for the wrong reasons, you feel that the best players donāt deserve to get paid for winning contests? Sounds kinda selfish to me. Personally, I think the best competitors should be rewarded financially for all the practice time they put in. Until that happens, nobody outside of the community will consider yo-yoing a credible sport.
Yes. But keep in mind that those sports are much more marketable than yo-yoing because of those rivalries.
Actually, if there was money in competitive yo-yoing, some of those names you mentioned might still be entering contests. As it stands right now though, you canāt pay your bills and feed yourself on bragging rights.
I completely disagree. No matter what happens and how many big name corporations get involved, people will still yo-yo for fun. There will just be an added incentive for competitors. Thatās all.
Better players staying in yoyo longer pushing it further creating a better āproductā for sponsors.
We do frequently. Last one was 44clash. First was probably Tylerās eyyc in 2007.
On the video game bit, I have the yoyo gameboy gameā¦ But not a gameboy!
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The only yo-yo game I ever played was Rygar. 8)
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