which is why the tungsten would be encased INSIDE the yoyo (aluminum part). far less presicion is required because the tungsten ring wouldnt have anywhere to vibe to. then add steel rims. mainly for looks. because it would look weird and would be awkward to cover up with the same grade aluminum. so you might as well use steel it would be less weird looking. plus the dimple created by the tungsten ring would further lessen the presicion requirements. im 99% sure im not making sense.
basically
Idea: because the tungsten isnt acually on the outer rim like most bi metals, it wouldnt require super high presicion. just some weight management. and the steel would be 50/50 decoration and serve a small addition to the momentum of the yoyo.
justification: the tungsten wouldnt BE the outer rim it would be juuuussst inside it, to reduce the weight needed. and steel would be on the outer rim because its the hardest and would scratch less. and because the STEEL would be the outer rim, far less omph would be needed to boost the power.
the reason i posted this was to see if multi materials would be favored or disliked by the community. and also to discuss the pros and cons of multiple material types.
anyway the Al could be replaced by Ti to reduce the weight and the wallâs thickness. hmm kyo what do you think? besides the cost. would it work and would it work well?
I for one am pretty excited to try out the tri-metal. Even if they donât offer any noticeable performance benefits itâs still something new. And that double ring gives it a pretty cool look!
there actually isnt anything denser than tungsten. anything else is SUPER expensive i mean literally gold,silver and URANIUM. or poisonus like lead or found in small quantities in friggin meteorites like iridium.
well if presicion is a BIG concern despite what i think (im not a genius or a designer), why not tungsten dust?shavings,fragments, whatever.
tungsten is very brittle so why not just shatter it and fill the inner part of the yoyo with the dust? it would have to be ground more finely than simply dropping it though. it would be a problem if the yoyo busts (wow that sounded weird), but the steel would lessen that probability. combined with the possibility of titanium replacing the aluminum, that chance would lessen further.
Pros: less presicsion required, the tungsten would be unshatterable
Cons:the yoyo MIGHT burst, screwing the entire thing up.
i would draw what the heck im trying to say butâŚ
my drawing skills are far less perfect than my writing. i got yelled at by my art teacher for drawing like a preschoolerâŚ
The trimetal Hideyoshi has a momentum unlike any other Yoyo. The double rings effects how it moves. Throw some speed combos with a single and bi metal. Then do those same speed combos with the trimetal and I guarantee youâll feel the difference. Whenever I go back to the Hideyoshi I have to adjust to it because it is significantly different in the way it handles.
Practically, titanium is more than enough to make a yoyo that is totally rim weighted to the point itâs almost unplayable, heck I have played a 7075 and probably 6061 that has too much rim weight I can hardly play comfortably.
One could go tri-metal or quad-metal or whatever but since there is certain rim weight where it starts to be unplayable due to high amount of kickback; the yoyo literally wonât unroll easily and âthrow-vibeâ will happen more often. More rim weight doesnât make a better yoyo, only more kickback.
In my opinion multi-metal yoyo beyond bimetal is only a gimmick more than anything, it doesnât make the yoyo better performance wise, it may be cool but thatâs about it. It will be more difficult to manufacture thus expensive.
Splitting to two separate rings actually cuts down on the kickback. Youâll find bimetals such as the Draupnir and Sputnik with far more kick back than the Hideyoshi. Also youâll find the Hideyoshi to be quite smooth and not entirely too expensive $198-$208. Sengoku keeps its price as low as possible to accommodate players and offer them something unique to throw.
Wow, that doesnât sound like an advertisement at all.
So um, how exactly does splitting it into two rings impact kickback? You canât just make claims and not back them up with anything⌠prove it. Kickback is a mathematically provable thing.
Testing of kickback is done by physical assessment in my case. An equation wonât tell me what I need to know unfortunately. Saying the Hideyoshi has less kickback than a Draupnir is factual upon testing. I donât need to advertise, Iâm just telling it how it is. Also, a Yoyo with major rim weight is never âunplayableâ it may not be to someoneâs liking but to others it is perfect.
I think what Kyo is saying basically, if it has even less kickback, then what is the value of using tri-metal over just bi-metal or even single. Because if you can make the same design and achieve certain performance with single or bi-metal, then why tri-metal, is there something it can do that single or bi-metal canât?
You would have known but for the sake of other readers, when we are talking about bi-metal vs single metal, you can get designs with bi-metal that is practically impossible to be done in single metal because the density doesnât allow it, itâs simply impossible. Like you may have to make the single metal version very thick on the rim and too thin in other places itâs not even funny. Same thing with plastic vs metal. With metal, you can make a design with a lot of rim weight simply impossible to be made with plastic, there, is the value.
That point is the reason why I was saying previously that a tri-metal might be cool idea-wise, but I think it doesnât have any benefit when performance is concerned, but with extra difficulty to manufacture.
However if there is something Iâm missing here please elaborate.
I was looking forward to Sengokuâs Masamune because it was using the alumigo hard which they said was ânot extremely expensive, it is possible to make it an industry standard as 6061 and 7075 has become as the default material to make a yoyo.â
So I thought, âGreat! That shouldnât be too expensive then!â
Indeed, and that was the intention, unfortunately, is not easy to calculate with new materials, it requires more prototypes than a regular alloy, because you know don´t know what to expect. In the case of Alumigo Hard, was unknown how thin I can make the walls (if i won´t push as thin as possible it will defeat the purpose to use a better alloy), the anodizing was quite hard, yield a lot of discards, among other troubles. Add that Japanese manufacturers charge quite a lot. Even at that price it is unsustainable, so, we made only 100 units and will not have plans for use that alloy again. Although it came very good and compared with other throws from that range of price it stands, not counting the collector value for the rare material.
As far as the tri metal goes, I was skepical as well, but I wanted to try. And it paid off, if I want more power i can just add 2 heavy rings and that will do, so, a tri metal is not about power, is about weight distribution.
4 rings allows better weight distribution than 2. The rings also are placed in a way that can sustain a hit without moving. Many players has tested it and only one so far said it feels like a bi metal (he tested it like 5 seconds), the rest agreed that it feels unique and is far from being just cosmetic, it is a competition quality throw, It was tested by people that no one can argue they are experts like Andre Boulay, Hironori Mii and Shinya Kido among others and all of them were pretty satisfied with the performance. But you don´t need to take my word on it, wait for the reviews once it comes out.
Making a smooth bi metal is challenging, adding an extra ring and without making it vibey is a challenge and as well yields many discards in the process. Many people complained because the Masamune was too expensive, so I decided to make the Hideyoshi in China to keep it under 200 and avoid selling a 300 bucks yoyo that only a handful can buy, but I bet some will still complain, but is the only way to keep going and innovating while making it sustainable, I can always go safe and use the usual alloys and make mono metals and bi metals, but I believe trying new things is what the industry needs, and I hope most of the players see that and keep supporting Sengoku, so we can keep trying to bring something great to the table.
Here a couple of pics of the hideyoshi, 63.6 grams, Al 7075, SS and Brass rings, 55mm diameter and 44 width.
Rizki- and what I am trying to say is that through physical testing a trimetal plays different from a single or bi metal. It plays with an entirely different momentum. The advantage of a trimetal is that it offers a different type of agility during play.
Thank you for explaining NeoHamster. Itâs a shame we wonât see any more alumigo hard yoyos from you, but considering the difficulties, it makes sense.
Is it just me? Or am I the only one who seems to have noticed kyo follows Julio around on every forum (reddit, Facebook, and here) and just talks smack like heâs better than the rest of us for some reason?
Dude its a toy, if it inspires so much hatred and rage why donât you make a better one? Or better yet since you keep saying âbut the math!â why donât you show us some math? Iâm sure thereâs plenty of people that can double check your calculations to keep you honest.
Because all of this is your honest assessment right? Not some kind of personal vendetta against someone whoâs new and relevant. While I donât think Iâve seen a new kyo yoyo in⌠Well years.
I donât follow anybody, I just post as things pop up. Iâm also not âbetterâ than anybody⌠but I get tired of baseless grandiose claims that border on false advertising. Iâd be more than happy to do the math for everyone if Julio had any idea what alloys he was using⌠Iâve ask him quite a few times but he either doesnât know or refuses to share⌠both of those raise concerns. When he first mentioned even the idea of it I offered to do the math, but again, I have to know what materials are being used to make it valid.
Iâve also played with the yo-yo in question, as mentioned previously in this thread.
Iâm not out to âgetâ anybody⌠but when you start making claims based on physics, you should be able to back those up with actual science, not your opinion of what the science might be.
If you havenât seen what Iâve done in the last several years, you should look around more carefully⌠Iâve been pretty busy. I was even one of the two major sponsors of the National Yo-Yo Contest⌠hard to get more public than that.
Pretty easy to make assumptions on brass, aluminum and steel. Theyâre all pretty much the same Iâd think. A quick Wikipedia search doesnât show too much difference in density.
How long did you play it for? I donât get a good measure of a yoyo until Iâve played it for 20-30 minutes. Gotta put it through the paces, things like horizontal, gyro flops, hops, direction changes, and regens.
Youâre doing 3D printing yoyos right? I sure do see a lot of those these days.
Iâm a big fan of accuracy, but yes I could generalize.
I didnât play it very long, he walked away pretty quickly after I said it felt exactly like a bimetal⌠but Iâve done this a very long time, I was just testing feel not total performance. I donât doubt that it could be a yoyo that plays really well, Iâve never debated that part⌠just that it isnât any really any different from a bimetal design.
The alumigo was a lot more interesting but the prototypes he had vibed pretty significantly (Iâm sure he has fixed this).
And yes, I do make printed yo-yos, as well as machined ones⌠but this thread isnât about me at all.
