So here’s a question to get the old discussion going:
We all know Titanium is a great material that allows for some pretty sweet things in terms of weight distribution since it can be machined thinner and has a greater density. We live in the golden age of Titanium, and it looks set to continue.
However, do you think there is anything that Titanium can give to a yoyo, play or performance wise, that can’t be replicated in bimetal? (Besides that sweet ringing sound of course). Which truly represents yoyo performance perfection, the Draupnir… or the TiWalker?
Do you think there are any REAL advantages to Titanium? Have we seen all that it can do yet or do you think there’s room for improvement?
Disclaimer: Considering I’m hoping to pick up a Luftverk Octavia and Dream Titanium soon, throw my Citizen on the day-lee and if all goes to plan, may have FINALLY gotten my hands on a Onedrop Sovereign (#whitewhale)… I think it’s pretty clear that I’m not Anti-Ti. Just interested to get some viewpoints and hopefully kickstart an interesting discussion.
Titanium and Bimetals both have the power to move extreme amounts of weight from the center of the yoyo to the rim to give it better stability and longer spin times.
Titanium can be machined thinner then 6061 and 7075 thus you can lower the weight down in the side walls and in the center while keeping critical mass in areas of high stress. This allows for the designer to shift more of the metal to the rim getting a close to bimetal feel if done right. I don’t think titanium has been used to its full potential though. We have seen pretty much identical designs as to what you could do with aluminium. I’m Hoping Luftverk can really change the titanium game and show the world what titanium can truly do.
Bimetals allow to add more wight onto the rims. However the designs to me often feel stale like the people designing them just wanted to add shiny rims and longer spin times. With bimetals we often get generic v shape yoyos that look like the draupnir, but have been changed to give it a different look. Bimetal too isn’t using its full potential however. We just seem to be using it to give our yoyos a longer spin time and not trying to figure out how to give a new experience while throwing a yoyo.
Both of these are still in their fledgling stages to me hopefully this year and the next we can truly see what these designs and materials can do to change how yoyos play and feel.
also this is just my opinion with some things ive picked up over the years.
Ti is also virtually indestructible. If not completely abused you can’t really wear them out. I also believe you can’t strip a ti either, the axle can strip but I don’t think the threads in a ti yoyo can strip. So there is the durability of ti.
You can strip pretty much any threading if you’re not careful. And there’s really not much benefit in a titanium bimetal. Titanium already allows for the weight distribution to be pushed to insane lengths because of the thin walls and such. Adding a gimmicky metal ring wouldn’t do much to up the performance of a Citizen, Ti-Dream, or Evora.
I’ve expressed this in other threads but in MY opinion bi metals seem to be spin time, stability monsters. They have a lot of rim weight to achieve the spins/stability but that also leads to the “thuddy” or “dead” feeling you get when it reaches the end of the string. of the 3 bi metals ive tried (pulsefire, weekend, nightmare) they were very stable, spun a long time but seemed like uninspired hunks of spinning metals…to me.
Ti’s advantage…IMO
still gives you super solid stability and spin and performance without the thud or dead feel. again this is just me
all the ti’s that ive played feel floaty, spin times and stability are awesome as well. plus you get that great “ring” noise when bound. Ive played a CiTizen, Evora, Ti dream. The Ti dream had the least “character” of the three but they all play beautifully with zero of the “thuds”
I really don’t understand why people say hat bimetals have no character. The titanium yo-yo’s that I’ve used (Dream and Ricochet) didn’t really seem to have much character to me, while the bimetal yo-yo’s that I’ve used (Weekend, Pulsefire, Shift, Rave, Space Cowboy, Nightmare, 2016 Superstar, and many more) all seem to play just how I want them AND with style.
Titanium yo-yo’s are definitely fantastic in their machinable capabilities, but bimetal appears to be a cheaper way to achieve the same effect.
Are there any machining experts out there who know if you could replicate the exact weight distribution of a titanium yo-yo with a bimetal yo-yo? It would be interesting to compare two yo-yos with the same specs and weight distribution, one made with titanium and one with bimetal technique, play in comparison to one another.
Also, another question, are there any machining attributes that titanium has which would allow it to achieve more extreme weight distribution to the rims than a bimetal yo-yo would (with ANY metal for the rims and with any of the basic aluminium alloys for the body)?
One more idea, would a titanium yo-yo with something like brass or another highly dense metal lend itself well as rims for a bimetal with titanium as the base yo-yo?
Definitely not a machinist, but you still wouldn’t be able to get the super thin walls on the aluminum part. If you look at a cad drawing for the sovereign (it’s on yye somewhere), the walls are so ridiculously thin, which is something you can’t replicate with aluminium. No matter how big the SS rims are, you’re still going to have a relatively thick wall on the aluminum part which would limit the amount of weight you could move out to the rims.
No. Set screws (yoyo axles) are steel, and steel and titanium are relatively comparable in hardness - though Ti is not as hard as some heat treated steels. Anyway, Ti threading can definitely wound up stripped.
A number of bi-metals I have played do not have a dead “thunk” at the end of the string… the archetypal bi-metal, the Draupnir, definitely does not thud. YYO Rave is thud-free. Although you listed Pulsefire as thunky, I have to disagree-- if anything, it plays a lot like a single-aluminum.
Regarding the Pulsefire again, I feel it has a lot of “character”. It’s an amazing yoyo that I play almost daily, to great joy.
I think you need different strings or new response. Those things affect a “thud” more than bi-metal construction does.
To the original question: I don’t think Titanium necessarily produces the ultimate in performance vs. bi-metal. I think they’re capable of things so similar as to be a moot point (for performance). Certainly Titanium offers more possibilities for interesting weight distribution (not necessarily just the most extreme rim weight) because there’s no second part to press and fit. With bi-metal you always have to design such that the ring will stay put, wherever you happen to want it. With titanium you just modify how your cross-section look.
To me the durability of Titanium in general but also the lack of extra parts (weight rings) makes it a more long-term reliable solution. I love the bimetals I own, but I still worry about shifting rings from time to time.
Plus, there’s that “pinging” sound to Titanium… gotta love that…
Speaking of that lovely pinging sound (I don’t want to get too off topic), I’ve noticed the Torrent II has the same “ping” to it. Anybody experience this or know why this might be the case?
I’ve thrown some titaniums that I liked better than some bi-metals, and some bi-metals that I liked better than some titaniums. It just comes down to the design, regardless of material, in my opinion.
But if i’m picking a side - Titanum. Because that magical noise and the sparks!
The SS metal ring is certainly NOT a gimmick. The titanium allows for thin walls because of its strength to weight ratio, but stainless steel is much, much denser than titanium. This allows you to concentrate weight even farther out from the axis of spin. I wouldn’t pay for a TiSS myself, but the Ti + SS appears to achieve the most extreme rim-weighting/moment of inertia I’ve seen so far.
And then there is Yoyojam bi-metals like Phenom and Diamondback… that for some reason doesn’t seem to be considered as “bi-metal” in discussions like this.
Titanium sparks and doesn’t strip easily if at all. That is pretty much my only reason if I would ever buy a Ti.
Bi-metal is good because it’s generally cheaper and you can get lots of colors on the aluminum part, with for the most part being able to achieve similar performance to Ti (with a few exceptions).
There is enough rim weight achievable with full diameter 6061, so I wouldn’t care much about weight distribution (for me personally). Unless when you want to go undersize.
I’ve noticed one slight advantage my 2 ti throws (ti5 & dream) have over my 3 bi-metals (Superstar, Phenom & Anglam): Agility.
Both ti’s have an amazing ability to change direction with ease. The bi’s are no slouch in this category either but the ti’s seem to have a slight advantage.
The bi’s however have a slight advantage with spin & power (except the phenom).
Note: This could be just design since I haven’t played many other bi’s and ti’s
Those things affect a “thud” more than bi-metal construction does.