Ti Walkers might come back if Heath gets 200 likes on this link.

General Yo-Yo
81

Using the ’ you made a promise’ leverage , to force Heath to bow to your pitiful challenge to his potential unworthy of trust scenario. To keep from pointing the finger to a ‘Bad Heath’, you point the Bad finger directly at yourselves. The Spoilers. The ‘You made a Promise’ squad.

The better solution to this was sooooooooo simple. Step away from your ‘but, Heath you said’ viewpoint and look at the Bigger picture. Consider everybody else in the Loving close knit yoyo community and Heath and a whole lot less about your ‘Death before Dishonor’ bull.

You few held Heath to his Promise… no More TiWalkers. Ok, you got your way.

Now that you have proved your Power; you now have the Opportunity to Prove you can also be forgiving. You can cut him some slack. He passed your ‘I’ll keep my promise’ test.

Now put your battle Helmets back in the War Chest and recognize the you can make many people happy than yourselves. You can recognize that Heath is now concentrating on actually making yoyos a Business. That the TiWalker is an Excellent Yoyo that should be continued to be made so more people can enjoy it. So that Heath can sell some yoyos and get his flow going. And be resolved to fact that Heath will NEVER, EVEr, NEVEREVER; like in Never Ever, make another Yoyo related Promise if he lives to be 385.

Tell Heath he is absolved from his Promise. That he is released from his Promise. That you step away from your inconsiderate stance and think more like Vulcans,“The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few”.

You want Heath to man up? He did… now it is your turn. You guys are holding the Book of Honor. Tell Heath his promise is ‘Cancelled’. Not by him, but by you.

You have a chance, literally a golden opportunity to prove you don’t have to keep Heath in the corner.

Pardon him like a President. Absolve him like the Pope. Commute him like a Governor. Forgive him like he is our friend. If you can do that, you will prove you are indeed considerate friends. If you can’t help Heath move forward, than you are the furthest thing from friends. You are only thinking with small inconsiderate minds.

You are focusing on his promise as a Verbal contract. It is not unusual for parties to be released from a Contract.

Show some Flexibility. Anybody that wants to still look through a selfish unforgiving pinhole… I will say no more. Period

2 Likes
82

This is not a bad idea. But the only people who can do this are the ones who bought the original run. My viewpoint has come from a position of what I believe is “right”. Heath stuck to it and I have tons of respect for that. But the fact remained that the end result didn’t really affect me much. One might then ask me, “Why argue so vehemently if you had nothing at stake?” The answer is I was arguing for my values as a whole.
Now as much as I believe in truthfulness and honor (never blackmail) I believe in forgiveness even more. So yes, everyone who owns a first run TiWalker, it was be amazing of you to contact Heath and tell him to share for of these with the world.
If this doesn’t happen, I can’t wait to see what incredible thing you do to top it, Heath. You seem like a genius of yoyo design, I’m sure you have something even better in you.

83

OH HECK NO Mr. Mo Chavez, you just stepped in it big time… the actual quote is “Were I to invoke logic, however, logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.” If you are going to quote Mr. Spock you best do it correctly, heck hath no fury like a nerd scorned. ;D

And Heath, I may not be a mod, but consider your thread bombed:

84

Fart? I’m trying to reach an acceptable level of reason and you pick a fine time to add nothing bit a quote correction.

Remember waaaay back when I used to like you? You know; about 2 hours ago… Lol

Anyways, I have 2 TiWalkers: # 21 and #47. I say give Heath a Green light and let him take the weight of a promise off his chest and get back to making more TiWalkers.

1 Like
85

The original point was not simply to punish Heath for making a promise, as you seem to be very heavily implying that it was.

The point was that people have money invested in Ti Walkers with the understanding that their value is at least partially based on Heath’s insistence that no more would be produced. Demonizing people for wishing that their purchase remain as it was initially understood doesn’t change the fact that they would be hurt by the decision to produce more. They were paying customers, and doing right by them is the first job of any business.

If this weren’t the case, then of course, we want to support Heath. Everybody likes VsN and wishes Heath success. But, support for VSNYYC is not the issue at all and never was.

86

So, since you seem to be reading along,then let me ask you something. I have 2 TiWalkers and I have absolutely no problem whatsoever in giving Heath a pass on his promise. And wishing him the best of luck with his next batch of Ti yoyos.

Stookie, you need to understand something. I am not trying to wear you guys out to help my friend Heath. Because interestingly, to the best of my knowledge; Heath and I are not even friends. < so that is not my motivation. I really don’t even know the guy. I just got into this because I feel the guy deserves some ‘Slack’. I don’t have to be somebody’s pal to recognize when something they said is being used as a Point of control.

This isn’t about me being right. This is more about people being fair and understanding about Heath and his current situation. If the people that have TiWalkers are soooooooooooooooo concerned about the yoyos retaining their scarcity value; maybe they should not have tied up the money in a Yoyo in that price range.

If the ‘keep your promise’ angle is being generated primarily by people putting the screws to Heath because they might lose some Yoyo value, that is a Sad excuse. That is not a reason. That is an excuse. < using a guys words against him to protect their personal investment. Now tell me, who is lacking in Character?

1 Like
87

What you think someone should or should not do with regard to their purchases is neither here or there. Once they’re a paying customer, they’re a paying customer with every right to demand that the terms of their purchase remain intact. That is fair. Promises kept upon payment are fair. Requiring or suggesting that concessions be made after the fact is not fair.

It’s not that I don’t understand what you’re saying. If every Ti-Walker owner wants to rise up in support for heath and request that production continues, then they can do that. Until that happens, however, I find it difficult to support a point of view that implies paying customers are selfish, or that sellers are not bound to promises they’ve made. I would personally hold all sellers, big or small, to this standard.

“Now tell me, who is lacking in character?”

Whether it were Heath, or a big corporation like Nike, the answer is still the seller who decides profit is more important than deals previously made. But, I don’t even understand the argument that people wishing to protect their investment are evil, illogical, or selfish. Maintaining the integrity of one’s investments is the natural inclination of any coherent person. I don’t see this as a selfish act, at all. These owners had no idea that this issue would arise and they have nothing to do with it, so I can’t reasonably place the blame for any negative consequences on them.

88

In College, many many years ago, I was a Captain of a Political Science Debating Team. The Professor would choose which side I would take and give me a few days to prepare: the position,posture,focus and construction of a valid argument.

The mission was not to primarily ‘win’ but more to get people thinking and simply approaching the problem at hand with as much information to draw from as possible. To make people roll stuff around in their heads and put themselves in the equation to formulate what is true and or what is fair.

Your counter points have been both civil and well spoken. I respect your manner and your view even though it obviously differs from mine. That is Exactly what I was looking for; a balance you could say. Now with everything we have said, I am done.

Anybody that has followed this thread and wants to either give Heath support or side with the ‘A deal is a done deal’; I will leave it at that.

At this point, what happens, happens. A civilized debate is much more mentally compelling and thought provoking than a Gun fight.

Thanks for helping me get the thoughts out there.

1 Like
89

Well, I also have no arguments left so that will be that for me as well.

But, I would like to say that none of my comments should be read as being not supportive of Heath. I’m very supportive of VSNYYC with my money (too supportive) and my words on this forum. I like Heath as a man too, from the exchanges we’ve had. I dislike that feeling the way I do about this particular issue is contrary to what might be his ideal interest, but I like to think that VSNYYC won’t be broken by a little setback like this. Whatever throw he releases next will sell like hotcakes, and I’ll be on the other end clicking “add to cart”. That will be the beginning of a much happier time for everyone, and for the expansion of VSNYYC.

90

HEATH HAS LEFT THIS THREAD. YOUR ARGUING IS AMOUNTING TO NOTHING.

91

That’s not the point anymore. Heath made his decision pages ago. We’re just talking now.

92

The other hand,You are not thinking at all. You are just BEING LOUD! if you don’t have the temperament to deal with a civil and constructive exchange of views; why do you even bother following it?

7 pages of text and you, with the least to say; fall into the conversation SCREAMING. Funny stuff.

How interesting that your screen name is Wargirl, when you can’t make it through a Skirmish without snapping.

This thread is about Heath. Nobody said he had to be following it.

And nobody said you had to follow along either.

1 Like
93

Well in that case ;D…

[quote=“stookie,post:87,topic:41226”]
I definitely pick illogical. Very illogical in fact. These are not stock certificates, fine art, precious gems, or any other such thing. They are toys, and niche toys at that. Heck, not even the Pawn Stars would see much value in a mint Pekka Peak or a mint Ti-Walker. These are yo-yos, a toy that 99% of the world looks at with confusion and will call us absolutely crazy for spending three digit sums of money on them. I, along with the rest of this small community, don’t agree with them but that is besides the point. We are a small community that tends to sell to each other. None of our yo-yos will ever garner the level of desire that a true collectable such as a copper 1943 penny, 1938 Action Comics #1, or a Honus Wagner baseball card has. If you want to “invest” in something, pick a better investment. Our yo-yos are purely sentimental.

94

Hey,

I’m the proud owner of Ti walker # 58, and would love vsnyyc to make some more Ti walkers. Spread the love don’t keep it for only a few of us.

Cheers

95

i would stop following it if i could find out how. anyway, people are still arguing about it, trying to change his mind, when he’s already said he wont.

Who’s screaming? i didn’t use an exclamation point, did i?
whoever decided CAPSLOCK and large point font implies screaming should be shot. i was just trying to make it clear and instantly noticable that there’s no further “points” to make. it doesn’t matter if you make a beautiful point and everyone on YYE agrees with you, he’s made a decision. he isn’t going to be swayed. and anything else is off-topic.

96

To stop following it you have to delete your posts

97

[quote=“saintrobyn,post:93,topic:41226”]

Well in that case ;D…

Wrong. They were numbered limited editions, and still maintain higher than retail value in the used market because of their rarity. This is exactly like baseball cards and comics, and every other thing that has collectable value.

It doesn’t matter if they’re toys. It doesn’t matter if they’ll never be worth a million dollars. It doesn’t matter if you think they’re good investments. They are worth enough that any logical person would wish that the equity in their yoyo remain intact.

98

Thank you, you just made the perfect argument for doing a second non-serialized run. The numbered ones will always command a higher price. That being the case, there is absolutely no harm in a second run since it will be easy to spot them. It is just like second printings of comics, a collectable I am well versed in. A second printing of Amazing Fantasy 15 (first appearance of Spider-Man) in no way diminishes the value of the original.

And with that out of the way, you missed my point completely. For them to be a good investment there needs to be a huge following in and outside the community. No “logical” person is going to invest in yo-yos for the long haul. The people who wanted to cash in on the high value have already done so, they are called scalpers. They are the ones that get in when the hype is highest… just after release and then prey on those who could not get one. There is only one yo-yo that I know of that has retained its “investment potential”, the Peak. Nothing against Heath or VsNYYC but the Ti-Walker is no Peak… nothing is in the peak league as far as hype is concerned. Not even the other CLYW products have that level of hype. It is an enigma as far as hype and investment is concerned. All other yo-yos will eventually fall in their perceived value. Need proof, just look at the Oxy 4. That thing use to command mid to high 3 figures. Now… not so much.

The fact that you, and others, are talking about yo-yos using the terms “Investment” and “Equity” is completely absurd. Again, these are toys not Faberge Eggs. Go play with it and enjoy life. If stock investments were as fun as yo-yo “investments” Wall St. would be the absolute happiest place on Earth.

99

I hope that one positive thing comes of this thread. I hope that Heath has learned to stop asking the community to make decisions for him. There was simply no good reason for this thread to have ever existed. The only thing it has achieved is to create an argument where none existed before.

If Heath had just come out with a new run (Back by popular demand!) sure Stookie would have complained. But that would simply have been music playing in the background as you hum your way to the bank. By ASKING the question, you not only DO NOT get the response you are looking for, you also anger your customers who are forced to take a side in an argument that they have no stake in.

Quit talking, quit hedging; and stop trying to collect all opinions. Do what YOU think is right for YOU and your new business.

Here is what is really important about business and “doing what you say”: Pay your bills on time and pay in full.

How do you do that? Build working capital. Without initial working capital, you risk undercapitalizing the business at the most crucial point. VSNYC has a unique opportunity to build this working capital at an early stage. Because they already have marketplace demand for a specific product (Ti Walker); this is a very LOW-RISK venture to generate high returns on investment. So low-risk, that getting a loan to capitalize this investment should be relatively easy should it be necessary (hey Ti is EXPENSIVE).

Allowing individuals with no financial stake in the success of VSNYC to interfere in this necessary activity is a poor business decision.

100

Whether or not you think a Ti-Walker is million dollar investment, or even a good investment, has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact some people have equity in them which they would probably like to protect if possible. They don’t even have to think of their yoyo as an investment to still wish that it’s implied value remain.

Just think about it. You’ve got $300+ into a yoyo, way over retail, because the yoyo commands that much on the market due to its rarity. All of a sudden, that value is hugely diluted not because interest has simply waned, but because of misinformation about the scarcity of the yoyo. Now you tell me that you wouldn’t be at least mildly upset about this. It’s not just the money, but the principle of the thing since you never would have paid that much knowing the truth. The same goes for original owners who might have stretched their budget further than they’d like because of the rarity, and the promise that they would never have another chance to buy.

As for the non-numbered editions, makes no sense to me as a solution. I only see that working in cases where the original is much, much older and has value because its age and scarcity is the primary draw.