Agreed.
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the yo-yo community has been a wonderful thing for me, and i am tremendously grateful for the safe, welcoming feeling i get at a contest. i wish that it felt that way for everyone! unfortunately, in a community primarily made up of adolescent boys, there’s a large amount of casual racism/sexism/homophobia that goes pretty much unchallenged. i don’t think it’s because people are monsters, but i do think that it’s something that we have to consciously work against if we want our scene to expand.
please don’t think that you deserve a medal just because we “aren’t as bad as some people”. please don’t act like it’s okay to be a jerk just because “that’s how the internet is”. please please please don’t try to defend inappropriate behavior because that’s how everybody else is acting, that’s exactly what the problem is.
we need to think about how our actions might affect people, and realize that – whether we are aware of it or not – we might be coming from a position of privilege, and the things that we say and do could alienate somebody. the last thing that i would want to do is drive somebody from a community that’s given so much to me, but seeing the way that some people are treated, i’m amazed they stick around at all.
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This is quickly moving into “She was asking for it”.
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That isn’t the point I was trying to make at all.
At first I thought that Steve was overreacting a bit and/or posting it as a joke, but this ^^ puts it into perspective. I have a son not a daughter, but I think of my nieces and yes, these seemingly harmless comments can come off as creepy. For yoyoing to appeal to kids of all gender and cultural background then a welcoming, non-predatory atmosphere is crucial.
edit: I guess he’s 39 not 29. My bad, if anyone saw that… my apologies. I did the math wrong haha. Sorry Steve. But kinda weird, although I still don’t think it needed to be exposed. They are both adults. If she was under 18, than I might be concerned, or if he said something more risque than “Meow”.
I want to say a little something that’s long overdue / The disrespect to women has to got to be through / To all the mothers and sisters and the wives and friends / I want to offer my love and respect till the end
MCA
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In a way, I think that a post like this should rightfully belong in the ‘unrelated discussion’ board, don’t you guys think? As the original post has stated, this issue extends to more than just the Yoyo community, so it has got nothing much to do with yoyoing, or any yoyo culture.
QFT
You say “in a way” then “rightfully belong” on the same point, then you say “extends to more than just the yoyo community” but you say “has got nothing to do with yoyoing,” on the same point…which makes no sense.
The moderators have been viewing this thread, for this long, and have determined that it is in the right place. It is related to yo-yo culture specifically, and has remained on topic since then. The conversation has moved on from your question, and the thread has been bumped for something entirely new added to discussion.
My personal opinion is that Mr. Coons, Mr. Brown, Mr. Severance, Mr. Tetz, Mr. Haponik, and the other pros who chimed in, are all great for yo-yoing and the brands that they represent. Those companies should be proud of their statements and their position on this, conducive to welcoming all, and promoting business to all people equally. But, it’s beyond that, it is about the respect they have for the female yo-yoers they work with side by side. It takes great men in my eyes to see a problem for what it is, and not just speak up when something affects them directly. I give them all ultimate props. The female yo-yoers appreciate them, and the non-professional guys who make us feel welcome all the time. Again, this thread applies to the minority, but it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the bunch.
Caribou Chris is a class act for chiming in as well. After his recent sponsorship of a female, I purchased a Gnarwhal, Arctic Circle, Chief, Cliff, and 2 Avalanches. A direct result of that. I wonder if I have been supporting the wrong companies earlier this year. I hope that One Drop will seriously examine female influence on their contest team. I realize the importance of waiting for the right candidate, but in my eyes, in light of the names coming up in this thread, it would help. Much love to YoyoFactory and YoyoJam for their support of female yo-yoers, they have always done a great job in that area.
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He’s kind of right. It’s not yoyo’ing. It’s people in general. This happens on ALL message boards, and pretty much all over the place in real life. Yes, there are many many pure, warm hearted people, who treat people (women) with respect all the time. But, this isn’t yoyo discussion, it just coincides on a yoyo message board.
Although, I do believe it should stay in this board, so more people see it. I believe women (and everyone else) should be treated with respect. I wouldn’t say there is anything wrong with the yoyo community, it’s in modern society (and probably all throughout time) people treat people like crap. Sometimes it’s men treat women like crap. It’s just PEOPLE, not yoyo’s.
Sorry, I’m kind of bad with words. But like I said, he’s kind of right, but also I think it should stay in this board.
A couple things,
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The moderators are, indeed, monitoring this thread and given that this is, as the thread title suggests, a discussion about sexism in the yoyo community, not sexism in general, it is in the appropriate location. We’ll certainly let you know if we decide otherwise.
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It’s been wonderful to see so many people be outspoken about this issue, which is a rampant one in this community, and to see the conversation stay mostly civil. It’s a sad but unfortunate reality that women in this community have been and are made to feel uncomfortable at contests, on youtube, on facebook, on these boards, etc., which makes it all the more imperative that we call instances of sexism what they are, discuss them directly, and not tolerate them.
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Very well said Jason…
I don’t think there’s any sexism in OUR yoyo community. Yoyoexpert forum members are definitely not sexist.
I don’t think that the reason One Drop has not sponsored any women is because of some kind of bigoted ulterior motives. they probably have not found anyone who is good enough/likes their product enough. OD should not go out of their way to sponsor someone simply because of their gender.
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When I thought about creating this thread, I asked the moderators first for permission and requested them to keep a close eye on it. I, too, am glad that this discussion remains civil even when our minds spoke really loud. I appreciate everyone’s contributions to this conversation. I would have never expected that even high-profile players around would notice this and post their own thoughts; heck, Drew Tetz made a YYE account to write his contribution [from what I can tell since that was his first post]. What I’m saying is, everyone has put their thoughts in and this conversation keeps going and going. And this is what we need.
Thank you guys. Keep this going.
It exists, just like any injustices out there. Maybe not as obvious here in YYE, but it’s there. I only thought of the way this injustice in the United States…but I’m pretty sure it’s just as bad, if not worse, at different countries where sexism may be more visible and ‘accepted’ for lack of a better word.
lol so rather than judging everyone on merit alone, you think companies should go out of their way to sponsor women just so they can say they do? Sounds like you’re the real sexist as you seem to think women yoyoers can’t compete on skill alone and need special consideration. I think YYF sponsoring Ann Connolly long ago was obviously for marketing reasons and not for skill, and that’s fine, i just find it hilarious that you would actually fall for such obvious ploys rather than respect companies that aren’t just concerned about maintaining some image regardless of player ability.
I figured someone would try the “reverse” sexism argument, and it was old before it started. New twist, but tired, and you chimed in late in that regard. Lol at yourself. You obviously missed my prior posts regarding merit, as it relates to sponsorship, or you have difficulty reading. Merit is subjective for one, and companies choose sponsorship on the bases they want, not based on any proposed definition of what you call “merit” alone. I never made any statements about companies “going out of their way.” You interpret my statements, not for what they are, but for what sounds good to you. I spend my money the way I see fit, and if I choose to spend my money with companies who welcome female yo-yoers and want to promote the brand to everyone, not just men and boys, I will do just that. I find it “hilarious” that you would fall for the ploy where the likes of you will come in here and spar with me, as you are not fit for the task. You need more people.
Further, YOU are the sexist, and this is not the first time you have challenged me in a thread. I remember the one where you called Andre a “random” yoyoer. You should watch yourself with me and generally speaking, as it relates to throwing adjectives around on here. I hear you’re not bad on the BST…so stick to that. This is not your strong suit.
Oh, and we have been through the Ann Connolly critiques, and on that note, you missed the bus. Now you’re on operation sabotage to prompt a thread lock. I’m miles ahead of you. Now, that I have been called “the real sexist,” a statement made about me “personally,” the matter has been fully addressed. Focus less on what I “seem to think” according to you, and more on specifically what I typed in this thread.
So, sponsoring female players is sexist, sponsoring female players is tolerant, which one is it exactly?
um… EVERY sponsorship is “for marketing reasons”. why do you think companies sponsor players? you think it’s to “give the best ones their due shot” or to “reward awesome players for their skill”? you are mistaken. they sponsor players who will be seen playing their yo-yo’s and make people want to buy them and yoyo themselves. when you sponsor a female player, regardless of whether they’re the “best”, it sends a message to other female players that their efforts aren’t in vain. it makes them want to play, makes them relate to the community, which is what yo-yo marketing is fundamentally about.
not all sponsorships are about rewarding dominance. look at guys like me (or dan ickler, whose post helped catalyze this discussion). lots of players are sponsored because they appeal to a demographic or style outside the status quo (i.e. competitive dominance). my daughter thought the world of ann when she met her and watched her demo, and asked for her yuuksta last xmas. people want to relate to players, and gender is just one component to that. (ann is also a great player, a great performer, and puts a much more approachable face on yo-yoing than 95% of more technical players standing still and looking at their hands.)
i don’t think anyone is going so far as to call NOT actively sponsoring girls/women bigoted (though maybe it is), but at the same time, a HUGE component to recognizing inequity is appreciating the position of privilege enjoyed by the majority. how many times have i heard guys whine that sponsored girl players are only on a team because of their gender? those guys choose not to perceive that it’s so much harder for a girl to stay in the scene due to the culture of objectification, exclusion, and alienation that we’ve established (consciously or otherwise). they choose not to appreciate that the playing field isn’t level, and that those kinds of comments are what’s turning girls away. and evidently, they choose to ignore why companies sponsor players at all.
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