Quotable #2: Same Model, But Plays Different?


#1

This one relates to buying doubles or multiples, and finding that the same yo-yo model can sometimes play slightly different. The most common difference I have experienced was relative smoothness.

I’m going to quote myself for this one:

“^ I had to think long and hard about why I really like doubles. For me, it comes down to several benefits:

  1. Having a backup;
  2. Color variety;
  3. Curiosity about whether they play the same, or if there is slight variation from one to another.
    You would be surprised at how often I have found #3 confirmed.”

Also, a quote from Azznboyaz, in response:
“I feel that exact way about #3!
I felt some of my Chiefs play differently, or feel differently due to color! All odlf mine are made at OD. I can tell the huge difference between Made in Canada ones. They feel way different!
I found the yogis were the best grinders.
The falcon Jab seems a tiny bit heavier.
And my ash berry seems a tiny bit faster”

So, I have not done any research as to “why” this is sometimes the case with some models. I presume it might be something tweaked in a future run, a bearing being better or worse, or any number of reasons. Has anyone else experienced this? If so, on what throw? If you have a definite idea as to why it was the case with that model…share that too.

Thanks. :slight_smile:


#2

I have no idea wether this is true or not, but I remember reading something about the majority of mosts manufacturers time was spent finding matching sides. I highly doubt that, though. But it would explain the variation.


#3

I have heard that as well. It must have some truth. In reality, I know they cannot all play exactly the same, but there are some pretty noticeable differences on some models. Others seem to be more consistent. Actually, I enjoy the differences sometimes too. Gives it some personality.


#4

There are different weight versions of the chief though.


#5

I know that Chris does this for the Yeti’s, so it seems feasable that he might have done the same for other throws, although I can’t imagine the variances would be as much as with plastic so I’m not sure how necessary it would be.


#6

If anyone has experience, or has helped out matching halves or testing a run of yo-yos prior to sale, please fill us in on your thoughts, about whether you have found this variation during half matching/testing, and if so, to what degree.

I have gotten a few and wondered how they didn’t make it into a B Grade pile. :smiley: Some of it is, of course, a matter of opinion.


#7

Ive had 2 protostars and 3 dm2s. For the protostars, one of them had more vibe but was alittle more stable, the other had less vibe but was a little less stable.

As for the dm2s, they all played the same as far as i could tell :stuck_out_tongue: one may have a little more or less vibe than the other but as far as play, they were pretty much the same.


#8

Much of the variation comes from the actual machining. Even with two of the same weight Chief both made at One Drop there could be a variation based on the machine time. The machines warm up and the tools need to be tested and replaced from time to time. All of this can go into the final product playing a tad different. Also the blasting and ano can affect the play ever so slightly…

With SOOOO many Chief out there… You will see this more and more.

I have owned 7 total Chief. One was made in CA, 2 were 66 gram versions, 1 was the 7075 and 4 were the 65 gram versions (including the made in CA) They all played slightly different. I think it’s a cool thing for sure. I have a 65 gram Berry Berry that I swear plays itself. It is without a doubt the best Chief I have ever played. I also currently own a Zip Zop (66 gram version) and that is no slouch either but that Berry Berry… Oh WOW!!! Love Love Love it!!!


#9

If the yoyos you are comparing are very similar in design or actually the same model, don’t draw conclusions about ‘identical or way different’, unless you use the Best bearing you have in Each of them.

2 cars can Look exactly the same. But when you put the pedal to the metal; the results can be waaaay different.

I would say that the bearing is the Engine of a yoyo. But that is incorrect. You, are the Engine. You, and the spin dynamics designed Into the yoyo, supply the Power.

The bearing is basically the ‘Transmission’. It is functioning on the power your throw provides.

Whatever yoyos you are comparing, if they use the same size bearing, use the same bearing when comparing them.

And Always change the bearing out, using a bearing tool that removes the bearing from the inside, like the YYF multi tool. NEVER use pliers or any gripping tool that holds the outside of a/the bearing. Torquing the outer race just jacks up the bearing cage alignment.

You have to trust me on that… I know a few things about yoyos and bearings and things.

Now that being said, I was/am fascinated at how much my Quakes play like my Ti5. The Ti5 is a serious piece of spinning equipment. And at about a 3rd of the price, the Quake is right ‘there’ with it.

The Quake Shocked me into instant yoyo happiness, lol.


#10

Yeah I agree with yoyodoc about the bearing. I think it’s very hard to make a fair comparison of two of the same model yo-yos. Bearing variations are the biggest thing, with variations of smoothness, sounds (!!!), and cleanliness (even right from the factory). The next biggest thing is response. If pads are not identical, the broken in one will feel different, the over-worn one will thunk at the end of the string and lose spin time. All of these can alter your perceptions.


#11

I suppose I’ve been lucky.

I have several Classics. As they are intentionally set up different, they, as no surprise, play different. I’m planning a couple more to be set up differently than the others. The only consistent area is they are either using stock bearings or YYJ Speed bearings. I’m intentionally using different response systems.

Of those that I have multiples of, it varies. With my DM2’s, all bought at different times, some of them used, they all play pretty much the same. Going with YoYoDoc’s advice of “use the exact same bearing” in mind, I’m going with a similar angle: They are all using the same type of bearing.

Loopers are always bought in pairs, at least that’s what I do these days. Performance is nearly identical.

I have two Burnsides, both with Dry Play treated Trifecta bearings, SOLD to me in the same batch(the bearings, NOT the Burnsides). The bearings may be from different production runs for all I know. They play very similar.

I have an OG Avalanche and a Comeback Avalanche. Here, we’re talking about design alterations(due to CNC information being lost) and different bearings. There is a noticeable difference. Similarly, I have two Gnarwals, and since they have different bearings, again, there are differences in play. Now, the Avalanches are going to play different no matter what bearing is in there. I’m too lazy to check the Gnarwals to see if they’ll play the same with different bearings. Since we’re also comparing CenterTracs to flats, a difference would be expected.

My Peaks both play like entirely different beasts. Using the same bearing doesn’t alter this. I think we all know that Peaks tend to be fairly inconsistent.

My 2 Code2’s are set up differently, one is stock and the other with disc side effects. Yeah, they play way different. Bearings won’t change that!

I think if quality control is very rigid and consistency is tightly controlled, then out the door and in the box, each yoyo should be, for all practical purposes, the same. Going back to what YoYoDoc said about bearings can ring true, because I’ve had “new” bearings just flat out suck, and some play great. I swap out “bad” bearings and replace with known “good” bearings if cleaning the bearing doesn’t resolve the issue.

It makes logical sense. If we can control the yoyo itself through Q/C, then the last random factor is typically the bearing, provided each yoyo is using the same kind of bearing or at least has the same kind of bearing in it. If differences are noted, take control of the situation and swap the bearing so that a single bearing becomes a common denominator. If at that point, the yoyos are still not playing almost identical, then we should also examine the string as it may have worn and need replacing, but I don’t think that will have anywhere as much of an impact as the bearing. The response system could be another culprit as well but I think you’d see other inconsistencies as a direct result of that being a problem area to address.

If one is competing, consistency is very important. For myself, I prefer consistency as much as possible. I’m sure for most people with identical models, they have the same expectations.


#12

Off the top of my head:

Marmots: Have an 09 and 2010. I believe 09 is 1 gram lighter. I prefer the lighter one as far as play but the 2010 is a little bit smoother.

Gnarwhals: Have two from the same run, one Works one TE. Works looks cooler sitting in my case, TE is one of my favorite yoyos period while spinning, though neither of those things have to do with play. Works is a little vibey and makes me like a yoyo that I don’t really care for even less. TE is smooth on the string and allows me to get some enjoyment out of my least favorite CLYW.

Peaks: Have 3 2nd runs. 28s, Bearing-Gull and Frozen Mammoth. They’re all honestly pretty smooth and play similarly. The 28s physically feels smoother, probably just a different blast? My preference leads toward the Frozen Mammoth but that’s probably because it was my first Peak and my favorite yoyo to look at.

Skylines: Have a splash one from I think 09 and one from the last run. No discernible difference between them. The splash one was a bargain basement steal of a buy from the BST and has whatever extremely loud bearing(s) it had when I purchased it. The other one was a YYE purchase and is pretty quiet for a hubstacked yoyo.

888s: Ignoring my highwall and small bearing ones which I’d consider separate yoyos I have two each 07 and 08s. Each one is a little different. iirc 08 is machined from 7075 and 07 is not. One 08 is a vibey b-grade, another is smooth as could be. Both 07s are smooth although their play is slightly but distinctly different. They both feel more feathery than the 08s.

Aside from trying to collect some specific Peak, Skyline and 888 colorways I have tried my best to avoid multiples of the same model recently. When it comes to CLYW this means that I try to pick up a different “must have” colorway with each model. I’d still like to get something in Gravy Boat and Blizzard especially, though there are a few newer colorways that are sort of neat too.


#13

I’ve only played a 2nd run chief so I can’t compare myself but if you own scale could you weigh each one?


#14

I have a scale that I can calibrate and weigh a few of the same yo-yo. I wonder if they are different by a hair. But, when I weigh, should I weigh with the bearing, or without?

I will make a list of some models I have more than one of, I’ll let you choose which throws step up for the weigh in.

  1. Chief
  2. Cliff
  3. Original Dibase
  4. Catalyst
  5. Token
  6. Hatrick
  7. Majesty
  8. El Ranchero
  9. Supra
  10. H.O.T.

#15

I like to think of it like this.

Mom and dad had 5 kids all from the same stock and manufacturing process, but each comes out with their own personality and style. Much like the yoyo it comes from a repeatable process but even then there are slight tolerance differences, no matter how tight those tolerances things like hand oils or thrower enhance or influence the pay style and that can vary from yoyo to yoyo even with the same thrower.

So that’s why it’s cool to play different yoyos of the same model to find one that fits your jam :slight_smile: sometimes it happens right away other times it takes a few times.

:slight_smile: thanks for another great thought filled question.


#16

Whichever yoyos you feel play differently from one to the other.


#17

I’ve owned I believe 6 different Avalanches, all the old design. Each played radically different in my opinion. Some were older, some were newer, but each played so uniquely compared to others. I’m still searching for one like my first…


#18

Okay, I will do the Chiefs first, so that is coming soon. :slight_smile:


#19

WHATS goin on?


#20

I’m going to weigh my Chiefs. Should I weigh with bearing in, or bearing out? Well…maybe both I guess since I’m going to do it. These guys it is…results soon:

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3801/10072939423_9b909dfa9c_z.jpg
ChiefTwins by The TotalArtist, on Flickr