Okay so for my birthday this year, in three weeks, I’m thinking about getting my first “high-end” metal yo.
However, I’ve come to realize that no matter what I end up choosing, it’s probably going to be lighter than what I’m used to.
The yoyos I have now are the Magic N9 Floating Cloud, 72g (70 w/o hubstacks) and the T8 Shadow which is 67g.
I find this rather frustrating because: 1 I assume lighter weight would mean less spin time/ slower spin, and 2 Magic yoyos are really cheap for some reason, yet, I still haven’t found a competition level one that’s heavier than 67g.
So does sacrificing weight make a huge difference?
I notice a difference between my T8 and my N9 for sure but I have no idea what to expect with something lighter.
And I’m going for something wider than my T8, 35.7mm, and a larger diameter than my N9, which is 53mm.
I don’t know how I feel about non KK bearings, never tried them. Both the T8 and the N9 have concave bearings, and I imagine that the flat ones could have problems but I don’t know.
I don’t have my heart set on anything right now for sure.
I just want something competition level, I know it’ll be expensive but I expect to get my money’s worth.
And really the only new brand I’m attracted to is CLYW but for all I know none of theirs might not be right for me.
So, help me out?
I’ll be checking back in here very often so feel free to ask or suggest anything that’ll help me figure out what I want
Holding everything but weight constant, lighter will indeed mean less spin time. But technically it’s a faster spin because of a lower moment of inertia (i.e. takes less force to get it spinning).
For spin time, weight distribution is more important than a couple grams. For example, my Speeder 2 without caps (only around 62-63g) gets great spin time because of the heavy brass rims on the very edge.
You’ll probably find most full-size, metal yo-yos get you plenty of spin time for what you’re doing. You might even like them lighter. But there are heavier competition choices out there. Since you mentioned CLYW, Sasquatch maybe? Never played one myself.
How do the side effects play? Do they add any extra noise or throw off the balance any?
Because I think I might want a Summit. I’m also into it because it has a flat bearing and I think that might give an advantage with certain complicated tricks allowing more room for the string to wrap without it grabbing.
No noise. Balance isn’t a problem either but you may need to do some minor tuning. Would like to note that side effects only add centerweight so you normally end up using the lightest possible side effects anyways
Surprised no one’s brought up the shutter. Obviously competition level, great spin times, super stable, only 60 bucks, and the blast on them is pretty good.
With wrapped string layers? Sure they do. It’s just a question of how much and the trade-off of not having a string centering bearing.
I like flat bearings best because the string wraps slide against each other more easily. They don’t bunch as much. String centering doesn’t usually buy me much personally.
tring against string is far less friction than string against silicone. A flat bearing is more likely to cause the yoyo to respond as additional wraps are added.
I don’t care about string-on-string friction. I’ve never noticed it. I think the significance of it is highly overstated, which is easily tested by putting some wraps around and moving the yoyo. You will not feel the string grabbing itself, but you WILL feel it grabbing the response sooner than later.
I hear ya. I think it depends on the tricks you’re doing. For me it’s much more likely that string wraps rubbing cause the string to wind up (then touch the pads).
The trick Nix on Rethinkyoyo.com is a perfect example. Lots of string wraps and simulaneous maneuvering of the yo-yo. Bonus tip: throw with a slight tilt to get the string loop on one side, and then land the string on the opposite half of the yo-yo. Everything slides easier that way. ;D Fantastic trick.
Also, with the low walls and flat silicone these days, string centering doesn’t do much for me. However for the original Dark Magic, I much prefer a KK!
I just feel like with a flat bearing not having the string centered would allow you to do something like skin the gerbil in the middle of a bunch of tricks and not lose spin.
Because with my yoyos, concave bearings, skin the gerbil is a finisher, totally kills the spin.
And I love that trick so I’d like to be able to use it in the middle of other stuff.
It’s a great trick for comparing results. I’ll give it a try with the same yoyo and as close to the same technique as I can, but with a flat vs. a profiled bearing, and let you know my results.
Here’s the thing, though-- to kill the spin, the string has to be engaging the response of the yoyo or at least the walls. The profiled bearings work to keep the string AWAY from those two things. I’m sure there are other factors to consider, but I can’t picture what they’d be offhand.
My logic is this, if the string is centered, when it wraps it’s going to be pushed from the center.
However if the bearing is flat the loops connecting your string will be able to move freely allowing more room for wraps.
So if you keep the strings close together, you have more chance of not losing spin with the flat one rather than concave.
I must’ve just thrown Skin the Gerbil close to a hundred times. I made a few observations, but the thing that stuck out the most was: aside from precession and tilt, ALL of the test bearings performed this particular trick very similarly for me. The amount that it “mattered” was really minor, especially for those of us who yoyo (no matter how passionately) as a hobby and not for competition.
Next time anyone is tempted to chime in on a bearing conversation with something that “sounds right” or “seems intuitive”, I would encourage them to take an hour and a handful of different bearings and just throw the same trick or two over and over again, occasionally swapping out bearings. You’re not going to notice an important difference in either the string rubbing (as popular mythology claims) or in the response engaging (as I’ve claimed in this very thread).
Anyhow, onward:
The main test setup was a C3 Krown with recessed red gasket maker response, and a slightly used (put it on this morning in the Krown which was today’s throw) YYF 100% poly string. Specifically it was one of their tourniquet (extra-long) strings cut down for normal 1A. I intentionally wanted standard poly that wasn’t brand new.
The bearings were: OD 10-ball, Dif KK, CBC CT, Buddha Whipple, Twisted Trifecta. I threw between 5 and 10 Skin the Gerbils (didn’t keep super careful track but closer to 10) after each bearing swap, and swapped them back in at least twice each.
The main test was simply: “do Skin the Gerbil with the best alignment possible, but with the so-so technique of allowing the string layers to slide against one-another” (with better technique, this sliding is minimized, but I wanted to test the string-on-string friction properly).
It didn’t take long to notice that the flat bearing caused the yoyo to be more prone to tilt and precession.
It could have been my imagination, but I DO think I felt a bit less friction between the string segments when using the flat.It was so barely detectible that it may have been my imagination, but I have to admit I think I felt it. Howver, there was definitely no snagging from string-on-string contact.
I also did not tend to notice the string “grabbing” the response when using the flat. With the recessed response, I think the contact was less than I was putting forward. However, the only time I actually had a snarl-up in the gap (the response kicked in with multiple string layers) was while using the flat, so my theory might still have some merit, I just don’t think it’s as big as I was proposing.
The profiled bearings performed very similarly. The “U” of the KK, the “V” of the Whipple, the “flattened to allow string movement” modified “U” of the CT… in a blind test, I dare any of you to tell which one is in your yoyo. I actually expected the Trifecta to perform the worst (worse than the flat, also), since in theory it almost “locks” the string into the middle (effectively cutting string mobility in half … in theory…) but it didn’t. The string must pop out of that groove with the slightest pressure (which makes sense when you think about it) and causes it to perform just as well as the rest of the profiled bearings.
What WAS noticeable was the smoothness and sound of the bearings… they’re different from each other in that regard! The 10-ball was probably the smoothest, but the KK and Trifecta were good, too.
Overall, although I do believe the yoyo “slowed down” more with the flat bearing. The tilting shows that there was more contact with the gap walls, something partially mitigated by the profiled bearings. But the slowing down was miniscule; not nearly to the level I was predicting.
Since the Skin the Gerbil trick didn’t produce very compelling results, I decided to first re-run the tests with a yoyo with a known narrow gap, the El Ranchero. Same results, really.
Since I was already in the testing zone, I changed up the trick, doing a quadruple-on Lindy Loop as straight as possible and then undoing it. They all seemed pretty similar again, including the flat. I suspected the flat was slowing down a BIT more, so I then did the quad Lindy Loop but just held it until the yoyo died.
The flat definitely died more quickly in THIS test, but again it wasn’t the yoyo’s response kicking in as I was predicting. It was the contact with the gap walls.
In conclusion: there’s no huge reason to prefer one over the other in terms of this string layering. When there was a slowdown with flats, it was because the yoyo was also tilting more than the profiled bearings. For this reason, I’ll still stick to my preference for profiled bearings… they help the yoyo maintain its plane better, which in somewhat artificial tests also BARELY prolonged spin time.
But that said, I also don’t think there’s a great reason to rush out to replace your flat bearings. If that’s what you have, just use it. It’ll be fine. And if the smoothness of a particular bearing (for example, the OD 10-ball) is more important to you than any perceived minor performance benefits, that’s still a GREAT reason to continue using it!
A flat bearing is more likely to cause the yoyo to respond as additional wraps are added.