Duncan Butterfly/Imperial - Damaging to the hobby?

General Yo-Yo
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I wouldn’t really say damaging to the hobby. But this is coming from somebody who lived off of these as a kid. My initial intentions was to get a Yomega Brain yoyo as I thought the sleeping was exclusive to that yoyo (had never actually seen a yoyo sleep before seeing a Yomega Brain in action). Honestly I thought the Yomega Brain was basically a yoyo ball with a delayed return. Turned out I didn’t have enough allowance to get the Yomega brain and my birthday was a few weeks away…so the parents said “just wait and see what you get for your birthday.” The impatient kid in me decided to see what KB toys had and ended up buying the Imperial where I learned the magic of sleeping and doing a proper throw. That same day within a couple hours of walking around in the mall with my parents and going into stores I had zero interest in being at, I had self-figured out walking the dog and the cradle/rock the baby.

For me it was a gateway to this hobby. Today I still see it as a gateway, something that a parent might buy for their kid on impulse since it’s a cheap non-electronic toy that might pull their kid off that iPad or Xbox…if the kid manages to learn how to use it and get addicted like I did even with just the basic gravity pull and basic tricks and especially in today’s times, look up on youtube to see more yoyo tricks, they might be inclined to buy a better model…but that Duncan Imperial/Butterfly would have served its purpose, introducing them to the hobby on the cheap.

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42

The videos from whoth3man and Glenacius K are amazing. I also enjoy watching Ed and am amazed with what can be done with a fixed axle since I can barely do a “Rock-the-Baby”.

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Thanks! :slight_smile: His Instagram account is amazing! I am continuously baffled by what he does! One of my favorites was when he had his alley cat taken apart and popped one half in the air. When it landed on the axel of the other half, it spun back together! It was amazing! :heart_eyes: It wasn’t fixed axel but it was still crazy awesome! :slight_smile:

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Just thought I’d upload another just for fun.  :smiley:

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45

So I just bought a new Butterfly (a recently produced one), and it feels different from my older one. The rims where the side caps meet feel fatter and rounder, and are not flush with the caps. The caps feel slightly recessed. It also plays sooooo much better. Either I happened to get one of the rare good ones, or Duncan has updated the yoyo. Or I’m crazy.

Anyway, this thing plays great. You can do all the classic tricks on it that any non-thrower can recognise. I do not think it is damaging to the hobby since it does what a yoyo is supposed to do. Does it take skill, hard work and determination to use properly? Absolutely, but anything worth doing does. Besides, it’s called a SKILL TOY, is it not?

I understand the point that the classic design may turn off some potential new players since it doesn’t allow them to do the crazy tricks they see on YouTube. That said, most people who are intent on starting and hoping to land those tricks will also notice the pro players are not playing with a cheap Butterfly.

I find the discussion parallel to one I had with some friends about video games. Video games from the 70s and 80s era could be ridiculously difficult. They were frustrating but people played them anyway. People still play them. Finishing a game was a BIG DEAL. There also was not a lot of variety back then because good games were not produced very often so the games had to have a long replay value. These days, if a game is too hard, a kid just quits and pops in another game because there are so many available options. The industry has therefore made the games much easier to play in order for them to be “accessible to a large audience”. Sure, you now have more gamers, but many of them are not good at classic games. It’s hilarious to watch kids who are “great gamers” try to play Donkey Kong or even Super Mario Brothers. It’s a lot like watching a kid who learned how to play unresponsive right out of the gate and is now trying to do a brain twister on a fixed-axle. It’s a train wreck.

If a kid walks into your toy store and says he wants to start yoyoing, maybe ask him if he wants to learn classic tricks or modern tricks. If he says classic, then give him the butterfly. If he says modern, then make him spend the extra few bucks and give him a YYF Whip.

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Deeeeeeeeeeewwwwd you guys are bauss. That was really awesome.

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47

I guess you think the world is flat also. Duncan imperial/butterfly is the sole reason I yoyo currently. Are they good players? They are ok for what they are. But to say they are damaging to the hobby is ridiculous. What these yoyo represent is a gateway to the community. The fact they are offered in Wal-Marts gives everyone with a five dollar bill in their pocket the opportunity to explore yoyoing. Unbelievable the things I read sometimes :frowning:

48

You dont have to insult me because I think differently than you. Making it a personal attack? Very mature thing to add into a debate. /s

You, Me, and Everyone else that posts here on these forums are of a different mindset. We are hobby people and skill toy enthusiasts. We are but a TINY fraction of those that have picked up an imperial/butterfly.
Working in a toy store, I seen ton of NON-hobby minded people get turned off time and again. This is observation I see often enough to be noteworthy. You and many others may be different, but I see it play out time and time again showing me the opposite of your story. I see them throw it a few times at most and move on. But hand them a shutter thats been thick lubed, or DV888 with thick pads, and they can instantly feel the possibility of power and ability. They ask questions, want to know more. I dont recall this ever happening with the discussed base models.

As can be attested in this discussion, many were not turned off by them, but far more often than not, countless more are and never look back thinking “I dont have what it takes to yoyo” when really the throw was just not ideal. Hate all you want, think what you want, Im just talking about what I see and the disturbing lack of QC only drive the point home further.

There is a difference between being inexpensive and being cheap. Your talking cost and accessibility. Im talking quality (or lack there of) and (non-beginner-friendly) design.

Also, remember, this is just a discussion. Im not saying anything is fact or fake, real life or delusion. Note that the OP title is a question, not a statement or proclamation as fact. Just a place to discuss, defend, promote, and question some of the most well know, but worst manufactured yoyos of all time. And next time, try to keep personal attacks to a minimum. Were playing with toys here. Lighten up.

49

I’ve been giving this topic a lot of thought. While I’m not sure how damaging the Duncan Butterfly and Imperial are to the hobby, I did realize how much better I thought either of those two yoyos were after I became a better yoyo player. In fact, my son and I joke about the YYF Whip. We received one as a bonus on a BST purchase very early on in our yoyo careers. Initially the Whip was an unstable, short spinning nice idea that failed on execution. Nevermind the videos on the Whip page on this site that showed people who were good at yoyo doing amazing things with it :slight_smile: [the italics parts were my initial thought and experience with the Whip]. A few months ago (a couple of years after getting that yoyo), I picked it up from the yoyo case threw it, and immediately thought “wow, this yoyo has gotten better.” Of course, the yoyo didn’t get better, but, I did.

Now to bring this back to the Duncan models in question: I agree they are old school, at a price point that will allow people to pick them up and try them without breaking the bank. However, I can see the original poster’s perspective that when someone off the street sees a Drew Tetz or Ed Haponik or any of the folks who posted their Butterfly videos here, most people won’t think “wow, those guys must have really put in time and effort to gain that skill.” I’m betting the more common thought is “those guys are really good at yoyo, and I stink at it.”

Others have mentioned musical instruments, and, it just hit me, there is a reason your local music store doesn’t sell the same instruments as the toy stores sell. It is the same reason my kids band teacher used to say “don’t buy your instrument at the same place you buy your vacuum, toothpaste and socks.”

It is tough, Imperials and Butterflys are dead cheap to make, if someone could magically come up with a more beginner friendly yoyo in the same price range that may change things, but, I just don’t know.

Apologies to anyone who read this entire diarrhea of incoherent word.

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apologies accepted but not necessary. i enjoyed. you hit the nail on the head.

51

I completely agree with this post. I totally got turned off when I got my first yoyo- the Duncan butterfly. I just never thought it was my thing because it was super hard, and all I got from that experience was that yoyos go up and down, and if you break the string or get a knot, you have to buy a new one. So fast forward a year or two later and my cousin gets this thing called an “unresponsive yoyo” it sounded really cool how it spins really long and you have to bind to get it back up. And that’s how I got into yoyoing. But now hat I’m better at it, I’ve actually gone back to responsive yoyos too because it actually gets your tricks cleaner, because they’re way less forgiving. I think that the butterfly did ruin yoyoing for me, and if it weren’t for my cousin, I wouldn’t be into it. At the same time tho, I respect responsive yoyos a LOT. Just not the butterfly or imperial that make people quit.

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I loved my first yoyo, a Duncan Imperial. It was a simple affair of around the world and forward passes. But when I bought the Duncan Butterfly, I was completely turned off. Looking back, I think I got a dud. But that didn’t matter at the time. I didn’t come back to yoyo until the Raider/Fireball appeared.

We’re not happy until you’re not happy! *<B{Q>

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I you still yoyo in any capacity, the Butterfly obviously didn’t ruin it for you.

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But it did turn him off from yoyoing. Which is exactly the point I bring to the table. Yea he got back into it but those yoyos specifically turn a lot of people off.

I’m glad you returned (thanks to your cousin) and found joy in it. Thanks for sharing your experience!

55

I learned everything up to split the atom on a butterfly. I think it’s because I watched “Arnie Dixon’s yo-yo Extravaganza” and that’s what he used, so I knew it could be done on that yo-yo and I was determined.

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56

As I’m posting much less than I once did, I realize that many of you might not be familiar with my earlier posts so I’ll share a bit of background before directly answering the op.

I started yo-yoing around five years old. I learned on home made yoyos that my grandmother and I made together out of old tree branches. On my fifth birthday I received my first store bought yoyo, a red Duncan imperial. I carried it everywhere, and everyday! It was always there, I could count on it to work as a dog leash, spin it over my head and fly over lakes and rivers, I could even yoyo with it! That imperial was much more than just a yoyo, it was a toy of imagination and joy. Heck, I could even skip it off the surface of puddles and swimming pools just like a stone at the lake.

As the years passed I continued to yoyo, wore out many a fixed axle, starbursts worn smooth and shiny. What’s a starburst? Yep, I’ve been at this yoyo thing for a bit. I finally graduated college, was still yo-yoing, and got my first teaching job.

I decided to teach thirty students to yoyo, handed them all Duncan imperials and butterflies. That’s the moment I learned imperials and butterflies are not the yoyo to teach a group with. Since that day I’ve literally introduced hundreds of kids to yo-yoing.

I recognize three groups of learners:

Group 1- This group loves to yoyo and will yoyo no matter what they are given to start with. They are intrinsically drawn to yo-yoing and will figure it out with or without help. Individuals in this group just naturally gravitate to yo-yoing.

Group 2- “What’s the big deal? Let’s do something else.”

Group 3- This group may or may not like yo-yoing. This group reaches frustration much more quickly than group one and often individuals in this group get frustrated when they compare their progress to their peers. They enjoy yo-yoing but are not drawn to the activity for the same reasons as group one. They see value in the activity so they don’t discount yo-yoing as quickly as group two. Most beginners fall within this group.

I believe for individuals in group three, the Duncan imperial/butterfly would be a huge obstacle in their yoyo journey, and maybe even the end. Group two isn’t going to yoyo no matter what you hand them and you aren’t going to keep group one from yo-yoing.

By the way, I never used imperials and butterflies when introducing yo-yoing again. There are much better choice, even trans axles are much better in my opinion.

Conclusion:
Imperials/butterflies, in my experience, will probably frustrate most people from continuing their yoyo journey but for a few they provide an excellent start. When introducing yo-yoing to someone, neither of these would be my first choice, in fact close to my last choice even though I still have my original red imperial and play it often.

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57

I started playing yoyo when I was a kid, I learned properly using a transaxle yoyo though I cannot remember the name anymore.

Then, just last year, I bought a Duncan Imperial randomly at a local toy store. I noticed that I can not do my childhood tricks as the spin will die immediately. And also, I noticed that the string on the axle melts. Since the only string it came with cannot be used anymore, I searched “where to buy yoyo string”. That keyword brought me into the hobby even more. Next search I made was how to improve the duncan imperial. LOL.

Yes, as a beginner, using an imperial and butterfly is hard. I may not have learned more than 4 tricks with my Duncan Imperial, but it was the gateway for me to draw more interest into yoyos.

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I learned on a Butterfly and I always keep a Butterfly and an Imperial handy.

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I definitely agree with you. The “classic” shape that was used way back then is really no good. Classic, in this case, is just an attempted positive connotation for “outdated”. Perhaps this yoyo was considered good before, now that we have ball bearing yoyos that are more stable and can be screwed apart I must say that compared to modern beginner yoyos, the imperial and the butterfly are just yoyos that are under par. For just a little more you can buy a loop 360, which has a small ball bearing and response pads.

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I am afraid you are missing the point. Of course from your point of view a bearing axle is more versatile, but that is not the discussion. In the world of yoyoing there are fixed axles and there are trans-axles of which bearing throws are included. The fixed axle has it’s own characteristics and has always been an introductory avenue to our sport. And if you look real close you will find many talented people doing amazing things with a Butterfly.

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