I am looking for a nice metal yoyo for ‘zoning out’. Like my silver bullet. The alley cat looks good, but then i saw the deep state and really like the idea of the side effects. my only hesitation on the deep state is: what is ‘semi-responsive’? From the video review, it looks like the yoyo returns easily when you tug - which is responsive - but i could be missing something in the video.
thoughts?
Thanks
I love both yoyos but go for my (OG) AlleyCat all the time for responsive play! The Deep State needs a good tug or lots of thick lube to return.
Also, I play my Deep State with brass Markmont SE’s and it still feels light… I really prefer the original AlleyCat for tug responsive casual play. I like the AlleyCat so much, I snagged a second just to keep in the car.
But they are definitely both worth owning. I do still pick up my Deep State, just not nearly as much.
Now, I have yet to try the newer AlleyCat 650b… but looks cool! Maybe someday soon…
I have both, and I would agree with all that BIG NIC said.
Might add though, if you have a chance to get a Moon Shine, they are really laid back, and
if you could get and old SPYY Flying V…
I have been really enjoying the Alleycat 650b! Overall the Deep State is my favorite, but not by much at all.
#1 Deep State
#2 Alleycat 650b
#3 OG Alleycat
I think it Depends on what you like.
I like the DS, because I think the slightly larger gap is more conducive to string tricks. It seems like it would be a little too unresponsive for Loops and Moons, but the response is so predictable, that once you get used to it, it’s pretty good for that!
I’m still getting to know the new AC, and I really like it. Maybe even over time it’ll be my fav.
I think the OG AC might be better at Kick Flips, but I’m terrible at those. I had a real hard time doing Moons and Loops with it, so that was a bit of a turn off for me. Still it’s a great yoyo, and a lot of fun.
The Moon Shine is a blast too, and probably the best at a lot of the fixie stuff. The gap is just a bit too small for a lot of other stuff IMO.
I’ve got them all, and I’m keeping them all! I’ve got 2 DS, as I had to have the Copper one…
Don’t have a Flying V.
OG Alleycat isn’t very responsive out of the box. I changed out the response pads with flowable silicone and made a super thick string for it, which made it a little more responsive. I’m thinking of trying some of the new pink response pads on it. The new Alleycat is much more responsive out of the box, and overall I like the design better. I throw it more often than the OG Alleycat. Deep State wasn’t quite as responsive out of the box as I would like so I packed some thick white lithium grease into the bearing and made a thick string for it. Now the response is perfect for me. I can loop it, stall it, do simple string tricks with it, etc. Overall I throw the Deep State the most out of three, and it’s definitely the one I reach for when I just want to absently toss a yoyo around. I have a Gamer too, which is a cool little throw, and probably the most responsive of all of them, but it’s just too heavy for me for responsive. I play it unresponsive when I play it.
I have the deepstate, the OG alleycat, and the 650b. I heavily prefer the allycats over the deepstate, but I generally to fixed axle style tricks on them. Right now I use half OG and half 650b (in the same yoyo because yes).
The semi-responsive feel of the deepstate just didn’t click for me. You definitely have more freedom for spinning string tricks, but getting into stalled tricks just felt strange.
thank you all for the responses. very helpful. I have not decided yet, but will likely get something in the next week or so.
As Oldthrower said, it’s pretty easy to make the Deep State responsive. For me, Brain Lube and Ammo String made it just right.
If you’re looking for one to play while “zoning out” I’d suggest the Deep State. The Alley Cat is more responsive, so if you’re zoning out and not giving it your full attention it’s going to come back and hit you pretty good. The Deep State isn’t as responsive from the factory and is a little more forgiving.
Bumping this. @codinghorror I know you have both, what are your thoughts?
@gcoomans you kill it with responsive, have you tried both (650b and DS)? What are your thoughts on the different size bearings as they relate to fixie style play? Stalls and snappy response etc…
I found the Deep State to be too small for what I was looking for. I love both my OG Alleycat and 650b.
My current favorite right now is the Weekender by Doc Pop. It’s a little bit pricier, but I feel that it’s worth it (I actually have two of them). Also, it’s machined by One Drop
My thought is that everyone should own both 
Well, obviously. Do you do very much fixie style play? Like stalls and kickflips and stuff?
I’m mainly interested in knowing the difference in performance between the different size bearings for that style play.
I had both for a while, but ended up selling the DS just cause I didn’t use it as much. I typically gravitate towards small bearing large pads for bearing set up, but the new Duncan butterfly xt absolutely slaps. I have played responsive so long I can kickflip most yoyos (kicked a tivayder at worlds lol) ds is still really good for flips cause the high walls, but the alleycat is more predictable as far as response, also having high walls. And thanks for the tag dude, hope this is helpful for somebody!
@xyn if you want to zone out it’s the Alleycat 650b. Deep State is great but as all have said, it’s a lot more geared toward ‘tricking’ rather than just throw-return-throw-return. AC650b is MUCH better for the latter. I actually made my Deep State fully unresponsive with a clean bearing and some shims.
This right here is where it’s at for full responsive play. Walter, Theo, Moonshine, even a Daytona are some of my favorite responsive yoyos.
However, when it comes to what is evolving into “0A/Modern Responsive”, stall based play, the small bearing is really king. Large C bearings even when designed into a responsive design can be unpredictable. My Large C responsive yoyos, even with as much lube as I have in the bearings can be finicky and unpredictable at times as far as the response goes. The Deep State is in that category as well. Like Gethin said, you can do all the modern 0A tricks on those (or any other yoyo), but the small bearing large pad yoyos are going to be consistent with their response, and the small bearing is going to need much less maintenance than a large C. Half Spec is a whole other conversation, and I personally feel the half spec should just go away and companies should be designing with a small bearing if they want a responsive yoyo.
Agreed. Half specs are not good
I threw a half-spec in my ricochet. Is dope.
I think half-spec C bearings can still be useful in beginner yoyos that are meant to be upgradable to unresponsive play with a full size C bearing swap. Those types of yoyos aren’t really intended to be used for full-time 0A play, but rather as stepping stones to 1A. For yoyos intended to be exclusively 0A throws I agree that A bearings are preferable.
Definitely. That may be their only usefulness 
