Complaining about prices


#1

can we make a new rule stating that it’s against the rules to complain about yoyo prices

I’m just tired of hearing that said yoyo is overpriced and seeing people start threads about how ridiculous the pricing is


(kclejeune) #2

Amen. Please?


(2Sick Joey) #3

Freedom of speech basically…for the most part can’t control what people say as long as it’s not vulgar or linking to other stores.


#4

Just cause you don’t like hearing it doesn’t mean there should be a rule against it. If you don’t like it then don’t read those posts/threads.

Not to mention it can actually be helpful for manufacturers to get feedback from the market, both positive and negative.


(DOGS) #5

Don’t pretend that the term “freedom of speech” applies to a forum, or any other domain, where you explicitly agree to additional terms of service on what is and isn’t allowed to be discussed and in what manners.


(2Sick Joey) #6

Exactly, what is allowed to be said is stated obviously. I’m free to basically say whatever I wanted as long as it doesn’t break any rules. So not 100% freedom of speech but pretty much close to it.


#7

No that is actually no where close to freedom of speech, that is Censored speech. The opposite of freedom of speech is censorship.


#8

They can add a rule then, right?


#9

Don’t like the price?

Don’t buy it.

Problem resolved.

I didn’t realize it was that difficult.

If this is referring to a small batch of test yoyos:
I strongly disagree with that pricing. HOWEVER: I do understand the process and costs involved and what the assumed market would be. Even though I am also in that target market, I was not willing to pay that price. However, for someone willing to shell out the money, they’ll end up with a unique item that will retain its value better than a regular run item will.

There’s other stuff, including NEW stuff sold at YYE I have issues with the price. My solution? I simply wait for sales to break and then buy it then, assuming it is stuff I want.

If I feel it’s too much, I simply won’t get it or go elsewhere if it’s cheaper. No offense intended or implied towards YYE, but it’s a consumer product, I get it where it’s gonna cost me less.

Unless someone has the proverbial gun to your head and will shoot you unless you spend more than you’re willing to on a yoyo, then put a proverbial sock in it.


#10

here is the issue i have…

complaining in this manner is no better then the thread and issue you are complaining about.

freedom of speech is just that freedom, but here in this forum they ask that we not talk about two major issues (they dont take away your freedom to do so, but if you go against those wishes you will suffer the consequences of the choice to exercise those rights.)

so why not turn that thing you dont like into a learning situation and take the time to try and explain why those costs are so high?

we have to figure the cost of man and machine hours, and also the cost of materials, along with the middle man charges (this includes customs fees, stores, shipping, and other affiliated costs.) from the manufacturer to the customer. people complain about things they generally aren’t educated in, or cannot afford, so if the first group of people are starting a thread a simple explanation will suffice and you’ve done a service to this person by helping them understand that cost of business and why some high end nicer quality things cost more, but if they fit in the second then you know you’ve tried to do what you can to educate them and maybe someone reading the thread will gain something from your helpful post but if not then move on and don’t let it bother you!

so instead of being the same as those you are trying to point the finger at take the time to try and defuse the situation and educate; remember education is power and power helps empower the masses to be better and do greater things!

cheers.


#11

We’re here to talk about yoyos. If the price is the aspect you want to talk about, then talk.

Can we make a new rule stating it is against the rules to complain about the content of threads no one is making you read, anyway? I’m just tired of hearing it said that threads are stupid and seeing people start threads about how stupid (or ridiculous, or pointless) other threads are.*

*Oops, I think I violated my proposed rule. :wink:


#12

I disagree. I would not have the audacity to go into any store and complain about their prices. If someone had the audacity to come to my store and complain about my prices, I would certainly make a “rule” for the benefit of those who don’t exercise common sense without a rule in place. Some of us don’t need any of the rules applicable on this site, but they were all made because there are a small number of people who need to see it in writing. There is no freedom of speech on this forum. I have seen threads deleted for religious content and even “Yo Momma” jokes. Give me a break. ::slight_smile: I have the same perspective, if you don’t like those threads, see your way out of those too. If those other threads are being deleted as “offensive,” the price threads are arguably offensive to the store and to manufacturers too. Let’s delete them on the same basis. I’m offended now!! Freedom of speech…on here? :smiley:

It sounds like people hanging out in a store, broke, and complaining. If someone came in my store with that attitude, I’d give them the boot. But, that’s just me. :smiley:


#13

This is possibly the only thing I’ve disagreed with on, but we still fully have the freedom to say what want here, but because of that we have a full right to suffer the consequences for that too. Just an entire thread was posted or some posted edited doesn’t mean that freedom has been taken it just means that there was something out of line and part of that consequence was it was taken down.

The freedom and the right here is to say what you will but part of that is it might get removed as a natural consequence. There are places in the world where you don’t even have that right your ability to have a consequence was removed entirely your ability to type something’s or visit some sites has been totally revoked and that is a loss of the freedom if speech.

If you don’t see it that way it’s completely ok and we can agree not to see eye to eye on this, but heck even if we do disagree I still like you and think you are completely awesome and a huge contribution to our community :slight_smile: .


#14

I think that freedom of speech, even in our daily life, outside the forum, is not absolute. But, it is further restricted here obviously. I don’t argue the necessity for that. But, I will get a chuckle about there being any “freedom of speech” here. It does not exist in absolute form, anywhere I have ever been. Even if I’m in my house, and I “speak too loud” I might be disturbing the peace. Even if it’s not what you say, the problem might become how you said it.

So, that is not the larger issue, and not really relevant to my argument due to that. What I do have a problem with, is that a few people being “offended” in one instance (yo momma jokes) gets a thread deleted. People being “offended” in another instance, does not. In this instance, the offense of “complaining about prices” is directly related to sales of yo-yos. There should be some level of consistency, when addressing people being offended, and that is where the problem lies.

I am not a momma who visited the unrelated section and clicked on “yo momma jokes” and now complains that I am offended after I clicked on the “yo momma jokes” title. Instead, I am a person who buys a lot of yo-yos (the purpose of this site in the first place), and browsed the general forum scouting out the next purchase, and clicked on a thread with a vague title, to find that it was made for the purpose of complaining about Turning Point’s prices. So, contrary to yooldman’s post, the vague title led to me clicking in the thread, which led to the complaint about the prices being read, and the inevitable turnoff that ensued. I was offended. Anyone care? Of course not. :smiley:

Now, if a rule was implemented and enforced about people complaining about prices, we might be spared from ending up here. If a rule was implemented and enforced about the vague titles, we might be spared from ending up here. If things that “offended” people across the board, especially when counter-productive to sales, were deleted, we might not be here. But, until all those issues are addressed, we will be in here discussing such a thing.

My position is therefore beyond the “freedom of speech” issue. As a customer, someone who spends money in the store, I don’t need to come in the store and see people complaining about the prices. This is a store, and from the position of a manufacturer, store, or someone who comes in here with money to shop, complaining about prices depicts an unprofessional environment, and I view it as counter-productive. It might take me from a mood to spend money, to a mood where I no longer want to spend. Some of us want to shop without the misery from someone broke on here lusting after high end throws and picking out a specific manufacturer to accuse of over pricing.

My argument here is based on a premise, similar to that rule that disallows mention of other stores. A person complaining about prices, that the store displays on the site, as being “too high,” conflicts with the purpose of the store, which is to sell yo-yos at the price that they set. If they have a message they want to send to a manufacturer about their prices, send them an email, but I personally do not want to hear it. But, sending an email direct has no “shock value,” and does not influence enough other people, so it is never done that way.

My argument is further, that on the part of anyone complaining about a store’s prices, it is also “bad manners” or bad form, to start a thread, with the specific purpose of picking out a specific manufacturer, and telling potential customers that they think their prices are too high. I do not know of any other store that would find this acceptable, where people are given a platform to complain about the manufacturer/store’s prices.

Now, there is a rule in the Buy/sell/trade section that disallows complaints about seller’s prices. You tell me, if you think it is consistent, or makes any sense at all, for a complaint about the seller’s (YoyoExpert’s) prices, or the manufacturers who they do business with, to be allowed in the general yo-yo section, which gets the most visibility of any section on the forum. :-\

If it does not make sense, it should not be. That’s where I stand. We don’t always have to agree Snafu, but I’m not so sure that we even fully disagree on this one. :slight_smile:


#15

I just feel that some of these threads go from complaining about the prices to an excuse to bash the company


#16

My rebuttals stands if we as a community take the time to explain the cost that goes into manufacturing something and get to the root of the complaint either the complainer ad collating to away once they see why the costs are as such or flit becomes apparent that this persons topics need to be avoided. And I retain we have freedom of speech and freedom to those consequences that comes with said freedoms.

While you have a point and a valid point and I defend your right to feel that way and express your point I just don’t agree with some of it. That aside I agree it is annoying and a bit I sure that someone would blame the store (any store) for an advertised price it isn’t the store that general sets msrp (or map depending on how the pricing scale works and what the manufacturer soecifies) it is generally the manufacturer that sets the pricing and then dictates the minimum (allowed) advertising price, so yes it is sad and unprofessional, but what if the person is complaining out of ignorance of way really goes into making a high end yoyo price be what it is? And a simple honest conversation could open that persons mind to a better understanding? Wouldn’t then be worth the effort to educate rather then just delete the post (not just speaking solely on this pricing complaint thread but it applies here too.). If we take the time to educate then we often times don’t run into these same situations. Unless the kid (or adult) is just a knucklehead and at which lint it becomes painfully obvious and then proper methods of deletion and possible week long time out for a first offense could be applicable? Would that not be more agreeable or would straight out deletion and then move on be the most agreeable way?

In just trying to have a good dialog on the topic so please don’t take it personal or be offended I just think a good debate is healthy (a true debate is a dance between a few minds and. It a hunt for blood like some have made in times past, present and in the future!).

Thanks for sharing your opinion and why you hold the opinion I respect that and do care about how you feel so don’t feel lost in the mix.


#17

I agree and that’s certainly not ok in my book and when the happens there is no ability to educate or generally have a reasonable conversation when it hits the bashing point. That would be my dividing line as what why to handle the situation. I’m not a mod and don’t foresee being one, but if I were that would be a major offense and worthy of deletion bashing has gone from a state of still being able to hold a conversation and have a reasonable outcome to becoming an unreasonable situation with not reasonable outcome you cannot generally have a conversation with someone that has begun hating in and bashing someone or something as that is a beginning act of aggression and generally any dialog usually just adds fuel to the fire.


#18

If that’s the case I think these pricing questions should be at least directed within the manufactures threads then with a simple question of “How did you get to this price point?”. It doesn’t need it’s own thread and I believe it starts unnecessary drama and brings in people who would normally not care about said yoyo. If it’s in the manufacturers thread than the people hold some sort of interest in the company at least and I think it would be less likely to see bashing.

On another note I personally don’t think it’s fair to make a company give out information like how it comes to prices but that’s just me.


#19

By the way, I believe the phrase “freedom of consequences,” is a phrase that cancels out the freedoms you claimed we had in the first place. If you are not free from consequences, you are not “free.” That’s how I see it. :-\

Just a few weeks ago, we already had a lengthy thread going, discussing “pricing” in general. We went through the process of explaining some of the different costs that go into manufacturing and theorizing about why prices might be set where they are. We also already explored the different reasons it is not appropriate for a business to disclose the ways in which their prices end up where they are. Even one of the more popular manufacturers chimed in from that point of view. But, never will any manufacturer disclose their debts, costs of business and so on. I think at this point, someone just recently made a thread, complaining about the pricing of a specific manufacturer’s yo-yos. If they want to direct that in an email to the company, hoping to get more “educated” on the pricing of yo-yos, or if they want to vent, they are welcome to do that. But, to start a thread in the general forum of a store that sells those yo-yos is not appropriate. The most recent thread complaining, was not proposed out of “ignorance,” it was stated simply that he thought the prices were too high, and he was not going to pay them. He did not profess any ignorance, he instead maintained that he knew there was no justification for the high price. The people I see complaining, are not, from their point of view, ignorant at all. They have right to their opinion, but it is not in the best interest of the store to have threads posted, complaining about the prices of the store/manufacturer.

In terms of “educating” people or responding to people bashing. We do not have any information about a manufacturer’s debts, or costs of business to “educate” anyone on their prices. Therefore, any question about that should be directed to the manufacturer in an email. No one posting in the general section of the forum has an answer. We can theorize like we already did a few weeks ago, but there was no “real answer.”

Again, why do you think complaining about prices is not allowed in the BST (by rule), but it is allowed in other places on the forum? This thread was started requesting that a new rule be imposed that makes the rest of the forum, that relates to the store, match the same rule in the BST. It sounds like something that would be consistent to me. For that reason alone, it makes perfect sense.


#20

Then I guess we are not free at all newton’s 3rd law of motion spells out my point clearly :slight_smile:

"Law III: To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction: or the forces of two bodies on each other are always equal and are directed in opposite directions.”

Speech is and action and with every action there is an equal or opposite reaction this is the built in natural consequence for everything we do there are consequences (remember a consequence isn’t always bad.)

I’m very certain that a consequence is more indicative of our freedoms then the lack of consequences. :slight_smile: