I also agree with Doc, but from the point of view of someone just looking to score his first pair of 2A type, I have to wonder if it wouldn’t be such a bad thing if it got the original manufacturers to get busy and make some available. This site has the broadest available array of 720s, and out of 15 colors there are only 5 with 18 pieces in stock, total. Over at YYN they are stocking a grand total of 1 color with more than 1 yo-yo in stock, otherwise you can pick from 2. And it seems to be the same everywhere else on the net as well.
Do you mean to tell me that the risk exposure is that great that YYF will close up shop if they try to increase availability beyond next to nothing? It’s a 2-way street after all, and we’re the ones with the $$$, meaning that customer’s expectations should be met before one can expect brand loyalty.
Care for me to post some more? (I can, in both English and Cantonese articles, depending on your preference.) Or is the point made? Am I to understand some of you don’t find this exploitative and sickening? What if it were your child or wife? Or you?
Neither AODA or Auldey are “legit” companies, and are sadly above reproach due to the political climate of the countries in which they are located. The least you can do is not support this nonsense. You wouldn’t tolerate it here in the States, would you?
Dude, I’ve LIVED THROUGH IT.`Have you ever worked in a factory? This happens every day here.
Right now I am looking out my window, and I see Oscar Mayer, where I know that workers on the floor have had to go to court to try to get them to merely calibrate the industrial microwave oven in an effort to stem the tide of brain cancer cases workers within 10 feet mysteriously come down with from repeated exposure to radiation. That’s only one example off the top of my head.
The struggle against worker exploitation is universal, not the lot of people we can afford to feel sorry for because it is happening in another country. Virtually every product we use was the result of exploitation of somebody on some level, the only difference being that the people who are getting paid as compensation HERE accept it as being more fair than we believe THEY should feel OVER THERE.
Of course it doesn’t make it right anywhere, but let’s not be blind as we ALL stumble over the homeless people on the way into the disco, okay?
In a nutshell, you’re comparing American industrial facilities (complete with an anecdotal microwave story, minus citation) to women and children dying and/or being poisoned in sweatshops? And you’re claiming the only difference is the wage being paid? What kind of frames do your rose-colored glasses have?
I’ll gladly agree with you that the struggle against exploitation is indeed universal, but to compare a company in the US to Auldey or AODA in this regard is simply ignorant. To refute your quote, sir, the things we’re bringing to light in this discussion DO NOT “happen everyday here.”
While it is undeniable that exploitation, on some level, occurs here in America, I seldom (if ever) find myself reading about the things I’ve posted about above in my copy of USA Today.
Perhaps we can hash the existing analogy down a little further for clarity’s sake…
For example…
Would you rather work for YoYoFactory or Auldey? Whereas I’m sure Ben has been known to flog the insubordinate from time to time, I rather tend to doubt he’s ever been accused of human rights violations.
The differences in size, location, or income of either company is inconsequential. In fact, it’s just as likely that YYF could have founded in Asia. In the long run, it would have been a cheaper endeavor for all involved not even counting immoral/illegal labor practices.
The point here is that both companies, at some points in their respective histories, were presented with some choices.
They both had to choose how they made use of the employees they had, who qualified as an employee, and how well those employees were treated. One chose ethically, the other did not.
Both companies had to decide whether to invent and innovate product, or simply steal the work from previous product and market it as their own. One chose ethically, the other did not.
Hot dogs, brain cancer, and disco aside, the above stated should be the crux of this discussion. Ask yourself which you’d rather support.
Nothing anecdotal about it. I live in Madison Wi., and it was covered by all the papers, but more than that I’ve known people that have worked there, this isn’t that big a town. Btw, if you ever saw what it takes to make a hot dog you’d never touch one again. Also, the distinction I was making was not in wages, but in perception of what is fair under each person’s circumstances.
How do you know this? What makes you think they are anxious to cover it in the papers? In other words, you have never worked in a factory, or for a newspaper corporation either, apparently, and because the corporate sponsored newspapers don’t, ahem, WON"T cover stories about the people who pay their bills through advertising they don’t exist, right? And you say I’m wearing rose-colored glasses, correct?
Perhaps this is true, but even so, I would hardly call his company typical, would you? More rose-colored glassware here?
That is where you are wrong, my friend. The Chinese did not choose not to have our standards, like as if they are evil warlords as you portray. They are simply at a lower stage of development, no different from the days when WE had sweatshops, created knock-offs, and had substandard products, around the turn of the 20th century. These things took time, sweat, and bloodshed to develop in the United States, to win the things you are taking for granted, including the 5 day, 40 hr work week, manufacturing and worker safety standards and not ending with the right to strike and form unions. People DIED for these rights, or did you not read about that either? They didn’t spring up overnight. Japan was once the same way, but now they aren’t anymore. China will get there too, one day.
Don’t kid yourself - we are all supporting our own sense of entitlement and vanity here. There are not very many places in the world where people are willing to justify paying $150 for a small lump of aluminum that goes round and round on a piece of string…
Ahh, then perhaps I did misinterpret. But then it becomes more a measure of what a society is willing to tolerate within it’s own boundaries. And for the record I’m intimately familiar with hot dogs, hence why I don’t indulge. But I digress…
Not correct, funnily enough. I amend my previous comment about glasses, of any colour. Tinfoil hats suddenly seem the more appropriate fashion accessory.
Sure I would! Aside from manufacturing yoyos, how are they much different from most other production companies in the US? A company of ten making yoyos, or a company of ten-thousand making walrus polishing kits, is still a production company. Why does one have to be different, or run differently, from the other?
Having spent a good amount of my life in Asia, I’ll freely admit that I’m often overly critical of China. Her government, policies, and beliefs. I recall a time when I was younger when I didn’t have to, or even care, to worry about it. It was sufficient for me and mine to sit in Hong Kong, under UK control, and eyeball the mainland from a safe distance. Obviously, things have changed a lot since 1997. And so have many of my opinions. I’m not saying the way I feel is right, but filtering what I say against any personal bias I may have doesn’t make what they do any less wrong. I hope I’ve explained this well enough. It’s kinda hard for me to put into words.
For the record, “evil warlords” was never said, or even implied, in anything I’ve written. And having not always been in America, I take nothing here for granted. Not a thing.
The world being what it is, the pains of the US Industrial Revolution, and the times that followed, were great, and I won’t refute a word of what you’ve said about it. People DID die for the right we have now.
But I can’t help but feel you’re suggesting, even in the modern age, that because a country hasn’t gone thought such suffering, they should. This is folly. Can you not look at your global neighbors and learn from their past, especially whilst in the middle of the Information Age? If the answer is no, then you have nothing but an evil intent behind your unwillingness to learn and change.
Mao Zedong comes immediately to mind, right along with the “Great Firewall of China.”
Would it be so hard to adopt the business practices and standards of countries who’ve gone though the pains we’ve mentioned here? Pay a living wage, maintain a safe work environment, use safe equipment? Ahh, but then the goods wouldn’t be so cheap to sell, would they?
You feel that people speak passionately only from a position of entitlement and vanity? Interesting.
For the record, I’d rather spend $150 on my spinning piece of aluminum bought from a good, reputable company, then $30 on similar aluminum made in a place where poisonings and deaths occur far too frequently for anyone’s comfort.
And, because I haven’t said it yet, welcome to YoYoExpert!
It never fails. This type of argument always ends up in these kind of shouting matches.
Debating the politics of capitalism is not the point in these threads, but it always ends up there. Lets all take a deap breath, take a step back, and find the common ground that we all share.
Fact 1: The Majority of Audley and Aoda created products are ones that violate US Patents, and therefore are not legally allowed to be sold here in the US. This is not limited to Yo-Yo’s, the RC Car giant Tamiya was decimated by Audley rip offs and never recovered. Audley even copied the Logo.
Fact 2: Audley and Aoda DO have some original designs, but tack on UP Patent Infringing Accessories like the KK bearing and Hubstacks (Patent Pending is as good as Patent Holding)
That is pretty much it. How you “feel” about the problem is not really relevant and can only cause arguments.
So, Lets keep this Civil, or it will end up being one of the first threads to be locked due to Flames here at YoYoExpert.
I’m all too aware. I believe I actually saw this one coming and mentioned it in a previous post. I can’t help but feel my mentioning it is what caused certain posts to be made in the first place. :-[
Yoyos? And no deep breaths for me. Just stopped smoking about 8 months ago. Still averse to deep breathing of any kind.
This was basically my point from my first post. I just wanted people to understand the facts behind supporting these products. From there, they can make their own decisions, I trust. I just didn’t want the facts I was offering to be sugar-coated or twisted, for whatever reasons, to appear less ugly than the reality they are.
We’re being nice! The flames have been minimal on both sides. Why, we’ve yet to even have our first ad hominem attack or invocation of Godwin’s Law! ;D
I’m guessing, none of the kids under 15. =] Good for them though, if you don’t have anything worth while to say and/or don’t understand the situation, don’t post a reply. Well, that kinda contradicts this post…
Soo…no matter what goes on in the Chinese factories, good or bad (I’d lean towards bad… Support YOUR country, economy, fellow yo-yoers, and yo-yo makers. No doubt about it, YoYoFactory (and YYJ. ;)) have seriously helped this community, and buying cheap ripoffs of their yo-yos is a slap in the face to them.
Don’t get me wrong, there are a few Chinese originals that are fantastic, like the King Kong and the Inca. I am also not going to claim “Buy American” since we are looking at great yo-yo companies in Japan, Australia, Germany, Switzerland, Canada, ect. I am for ANY yo-yo that does not infringe on Patent Law. I would even bet that YYF and Frank Diffeo would be more then willing to accept royalties if Audley and Aoda decided they wanted to legally market in the US.
Also something to keep in mind. US Patent and Copyright laws have no authority in China, so what they are creating is NOT illegal, it’s just when they export it to anywhere we have trade agreements that include Patent Laws, laws are broken.
Its really complicated, which is why God blessed us with Patent Attorneys.
