Meh, Duncan patents everything, they once had a patent for the word yo-yo.
don’t get me wrong, I’m a former, and again future business owner myself, and I’ve grown to learn that both are not incompatible if you’re honest about it. Actually what I’d call “love” is the perfect motivation, I believe, to make it work.
Be honest with your customers, be honest with your partners, be honest with yourself, first and foremost.
Most people don’t understand how profit and benefits work, rather than telling people BS and hiding any money you can make, I believe it’s better to educate them.
A company means taking risks, working hard, spending lots of money without being sure at all to see it back (I mean you can make projections and whatnot but you never know)
I think in the yoyo world, that’s why it works. I mean, come on, a smart business man would NEVER invest in yoyoing, all the ones who are into this are first and foremost passionate people, otherwise they would have ran away from yoyo business, come on, yoyos?!
yea well, I disagree. it’s no fail to “fall” for marketing, we all do (don’t you have a cell phone?), the failure is to believe that, in today’s world, you’re “immune” to it. we all fall for it to some extent, some are just more aware of it than others, which does help to not being completely told what to buy, think, like, how to live.
I mean, marketing is like “the force” in star wars, you can use it to abuse people, but it can also be used to educate people, motivate them. there’s a fine line between “good” and “bad” marketing because one might always be tempted to take “shortcuts” and let’s be honest, people in general don’t get any smarter (seen the movie “idiocracy” ?) with all the tech that surrounds us and does everything for us, there are mechanism that have been put in place decades ago, we all grew to these rules and were exposed to them in our childhoods, there’s no coming back from what we learned when we were 5 or 6yo, and when we were teens, you probably know already that we were played big time.
all in all, know your enemy
I believe Steve Brown is the creator of 5a and sold the patent to Duncan. (I’m still new and could be wrong on this) I spoke with one of the Duncan people about that and their agreement and how they licensed the patent to YYJ to make the Destiny (Which I just bought and liking it) so that Duncan makes a percentage out of each YoYo that YYJ sells with the counter weight. The gentleman from Duncan didn’t get into it but did mention that Duncan has approached YYF about doing the same thing and that YYF either didn’t want anything to do with it or couldn’t come to financial agreements, I don’t remember what exactly was said.
As far as the patent though, to me being a business owner, that was just great business on Steve Brown’s part to find a buyer for the patent and it is none of our business what that agreement was, but that is how people make money and a living. Patents also don’t last forever either. For instance I can go out and by a remake of a Super Nintendo right now and play my super nintendo games on something that isn’t made by Nintendo and it is perfectly legal. So one day the patent will drop off (not sure when that is only Steve and Duncan know that, or I guess you could research it and find out, it should be public somewhere) but when that ends anyone will be able to make the counterweight product and attach it to a yoyo.
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yea, smart business move, but a huge set back in creativity, who knows what we would have today as CWs without having that patent blocking everything? but what’s done is done and the lines are moving anyways.
and as you said, they don’t last forever.
the thing is, I don’t know, but can smaller companies afford that licensing? Duncan probably manufactures many yoyos in china for not much and make big profit, so are most other big brands, so they can afford to cut into these profits and pay for some licensing stuff. But I doubt smaller brands or individuals such as Landon from 3yo3 really make any money out of a yoyo sale, they would NEVER be able to afford that licensing stuff, and I’m sure Landon would make awesome CWs.
All in all, I admit I do hold a little something against Duncan, but this is personal. If I want to be objective, I happily admit that they’re a great manufacturer and a much needed company in our world.
you don’t have to agree with everyone on everything, and disagreements over one point should not blind you to the point when you can’t see the positive anymore.
Perfection doesn’t exist so lately, my motto have been “enjoy imperfection”, works a charm for me.
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Very very well put. Thank you.
yeah I have one that is provided too me by my company that forces me too carry it.(Call it my electronic leash.) When I buy something I look up what makes a quality product in that area, as well as what I need it too do, and then base my buy on that, brand means nothing at all too me, and if it does too you, then I(I as in me, not you or anybody else) think you are a total tool. Get it? I’m not sure how you can even step up with the arrogance you have and say I don’t have that stance. Wow you must be some sorta god huh. You know me better then me. Nice. 
Ironically, the bigger YoyoFactory gets, the more I like them. Back in the day when all they made were boutique yoyos that cost more than I could justify spending, (and they sold out in 5 minutes anyway), they did sell cool while Duncan sold fun. But with every plastic they’ve done since the PGM, YoyoFactory has become more “fun”. The Whip and the One sell for the same as the sales tax on their first yoyos. And they rock! Now, I loves my Duncans too. The patent thing is business. Do you know why Ford had a V8 for around 20 years before anyone else? Yup, they patented it. Pontiac was making straight 8s for crying out loud, trying to compete. I do wish they would do something with it though. I mean if you’re enforcing your patent so you can make all the cool new counterweights, that’s cool. But if you’re enforcing it so that no one can?That doesn’t sound like the people that sell fun. That sounds like the people that sell tackle boxes. But still, they’ve done more to promote yoyoing than anyone. And they do still make the FHZ…
Have Fun,
Java
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the more I experience it, the more I realize that most people don’t do that, which allows tons of bad quality products to be successful, up to the point that even the buyers are talked into believing that it’s normal that their products are faulty and that they have to accept it.
It’s exactly what happens with french car manufacturers, their reliability and build quality are horrible, their performance is miles below their direct competition, and when I ask the owners about the various issue they have, they tell me “yea, the salesguy told me that it’s normal, they all have that and this isn’t a big deal, I love this car”, and when I tell them that my 20yo nissan bluebird never had any issue other than maybe the battery or the spark plugs needing a change, they just tell me that I’m lying (LOL)
What’s important today is the image, the brand, the trend.
So if you are efficient in these areas, you will sell, regardless of your product’s quality. and this is where it gets tricky.
Human nature being what it is, when you own a successful brand, you want to make profit (well, as long as you own any kind of business, this should be your main goal anyway), and you look for ways to make more profit. so you have, much like “the force” in star wars, two way to use that brand: You use it to make widely available your range of products
You (ab)use it to sell products of lesser quality/cheaper to manufacture, for larger margins
in the reality, things are not generally that bipolar, you have to find a compromise
from where I stand, and this seems to be the topic anyway, YYF found a decent compromise and this is the reason why I think the “hate bandwagon” is undeserved.
YYF clearly plays on 2 tables here, more like 3 actually. On one hand you have their premium products such as the supernova, genesis and whatnot. these benefit to their brand image but might not be as profitable as the following category.
On the other hand they have their “budget” product range, itself divided in two categories, plastic and (funda)metal, such as the “one” or the “dv888”, this might be their “moneymaker” right here, low costs, high margins, acceptable to excellent quality, easy to sell, easy to buy (cheaper)
So they could take “all that money” and put it in their pockets, just calling it a day.
One could argue that they might not put the same effort in their premium line as they used to do in the past. I wasn’t there in the past so I don’t have an opinion here, but that’s not really the point as their premium line is on par with other brands premium throws.
anyway, what they seem to do with that money looks like it’s directed to promoting yoyoing to the general public, the Tony Hawk tour is a perfect example (these things aren’t free, not at all)
so in the end, I think YYF does look for profit indeed, but this is not a bad things as they help increasing (and I think it’s fairly significant) the yoyoing community, making it a more and more popular hobby. I think their sport angle is the right one for the longest lasting interest, of course, creating a “yoyo boom” would be more profitable on short term, but it’ll quickly fade away, so the sport angle is probably the right angle (even tho, on a personal level, I see it way more as an art form).
In the past, it seems that it was Duncan who was pushing yoyoing to the masses, but right now, I don’t really see or read anything about Duncan promoting yoyoing nearly as much as YYF does. just look what you see on the web, I’m not saying they don’t promote yoyoing, I’m just saying that if they’re doing it, it doesn’t show (therefore, it doesn’t work) on today’s medias.
Duncan however is a very important brand for those who have been around for a long time, it carries the image of a traditional brand, doing stuff the traditional way. But as it has been pointed out, they are a part of a larger conglomerate that is not particularly specialized about toys. It doesn’t necessarily mean much, but it could raise some concerns, specially when looking some of their business moves from a businessman stand point.
When you compare releases, you also see two schools, YYF seems to be releasing whatever the players want (spec wise), while Duncan seems to release throws that suits their own visions of what a throw should be. (this is also why I think the above point is widely arguable)
Both ways are acceptable, but one is bond to be more successful.
What I’m trying to tell is that there are no “wrong ways” to sell yoyos, if you think about it, any business man that is actually in the business of selling or manufacturing yoyos has to be a passionate individual in the first place. Most of these guys don’t get paid nearly what most company owners do, even the most successful ones. Any individual within the yoyo business couldn’t be nothing else than someone passionate enough about yoyoing. This is not a business that is easily profitable, this looks more like a grind that only pure passion can help you sustain, no matter who you are, if you’re in this, it’s for the love, first and foremost. Profit is a goal for every business because this is how things work, if you want to go through life, have a family, buy a car or a house and go to holidays every now and then, you’ll have to work and get paid.
When you look at what Ben from YYF does, he’s always traveling all over the world, all the time. Of course, it may sound like fun, but when you do this for years on, it probably becomes extremely difficult, making it hard to stay motivated enough even to just get out of bed, hop in a cab and sit on a plane for several hours, and doing it again, and again, and again, and again…
this guy should get paid millions, he’s basically giving up any hope of a real, normal life, for years on, he’ll probably also pay it on his health when he’ll get older. And on top of that, you’re doing this over and over, only to see that some kids are just doing that whole “hate bandwagon” all over the internet. The same kids who probably started yoyoing because of your actions, your company in the first place. To find the strength to do this over and over, keep the faith in yourself, that you’re doing the right thing, despite the huge, daily loads of BS that you have to sustain from kids who have absolutely no idea on how to run a business.
he should get a medal for this. He might not be the most diplomatic guy around, I give you that, but beyond this, he’s probably one of the most dedicated individual in the whole yoyoing community.
All in all, if you (anyone) don’t like how he runs his business, just go out and do it your way, if you got the balls to put your whole life on the line for what you believe in.
if yoyoing fails, if in 2 years everything goes dead, imagine what would be their lives, starting over? no savings because you put everything for what you believed in. How does “yoyoing company” will look on a resume then? When you’re like 40, or 45 and only did one thing in your life, and that thing ultimately failed, what are the options after that?
they deserve our respect and gratitude, and if every now and then, they act like douchebags, know that they’re only humans, and most of us would be awful characters if we were to live a similar lifestyle of every day, minute, second dedication.
they’re basically playing russian roulette with their lives and their future to promote yoyoing, it’s all or nothing… on yoyoing!!!
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Hadoq, you know that most yoyo companys are hobby and not what puts food on the table, right?
Oh? Can you give us some examples?