They once thought the world was flat also!
When I got a superstar PC’d by bob, I felt no added vibe. And, in my personal experiences, that PC coat was incredibly durable. I accidentally hit a concrete floor off a breakaway and all I got was a very teeny scratch. And, I like the feel of the PC. Sure, it doesn’t grind amazing, but gosh, that superstar was absolutely gorgeous…
I really need to clear up the differences, I’m so confused.
Its still powdercoat, but flat colors and smooth. Sort of looks like ano and feels like it a little too.
From what I’ve seen the powder coating being done by this person is well done… that doesn’t make it without risk.
mullicabob, what exactly makes you an expert on the subject?
You can believe what I wrote or not, it doesn’t really have any impact on me… but it’s still correct.
I’m going to trust Mullicabob on this one. He’s done countless number of PCs, I think he knows what he’s talking about.
And I’ve been making yoyos over 10 years… and have worked extensively with basically every coating known to man through my various other jobs.
Powder coating is, well, simple… you spray a powder over the surface, then bake the part… the heat liquifies the powder and fuses it. This leaves a LOT of room for variables. You could build up the coating unevenly, you could heat it improperly and get drips, etc. I’ve seen it a million times with powder coated yoyos and other parts too. People have been powdering yoyos for many years, the results have always been the same… many are fine, some aren’t. Having somebody who’s good at it certainly slants things in your favor, but it’s never without risk.
The feel of the surface finish is variable depending on the quality of work, but invariably has a bit of a plastic-like feel to it. This bothers some people, myself included… others love it.
Anodizing on the other hand is an electro chemical process. The surface build up of aluminum oxide is controlled by voltage… when it hits a specific thickness it breaks the connection and the process stops. This makes it -extremely- consistent throughout the part and your risk of adding vibration is basically zero. (improper etching techniques beforehand have been known to cause problems, but rarely).
There is absolutely no argument that aluminum oxide (the result of anodizing) is one of the hardest materials known to man… it’s just a fact.
Want to take a guess at which method is commonly used by our military for durability on parts in harsh environments?
I’m not anti-powder coating… it offers a -massive- array of finish options that anodizing doesn’t. You can do any color known to man, and you can throw in all sorts of crazy additives as well… the options are literally endless. But people should be informed about any related risks as well.
Just as a general rule of thumb, as it is something I think of whenever I see threads like this, no matter what they are about, is, There is lots of misinformation out there, and on the internet, people are more than willing to share misinformations and beliefs/opinions as fact, it is always something you should be aware of and keep in mind.
That, and people tend to take things personally, and equate comments saying that a product they make/support is not perfect, as personal attacks. Just remember that they are not, so when someone says something about a product, or disagrees with you, I don’t feel that a personal attack on them or their knowledge is warranted. Don’t close your ears to those that disagree with you, as they may have good points, and may actually know what they are talking about.
Again, this is not directed at anyone, and I am not trying to ruffle any feathers, just some things that I think are important to keep in mind when discussing things like this. If I am out of line in posting this, just let me know and delete it.
Kyo is right! Powder has its issues. Drips though? You must have had some substandard applications my friend. I’ve never had a drip or run ever. If anything a bare or thin spot from to little. Most of what you seem to be referring to sounds like stone age. A practice that failed due to inexperience is now, from my shop, light years ahead of anyone that has powdered yoyos before. I say that with complete confidence.
When’s the last time you had a flat ano powder coated yoyo in your hand? Feels nothing like the powders of your dinosaur era your referencing. How about one that has been sprayed on with a thinner. Thin as skin and hard as rock which in some cases can be finessed into different textures with no additives added. Can’t say I’ve seen that before.
Ano is by far much much much harder. No doubt. Your ano’d yoyo kisses the curb and your screwed. My pc’d yoyo kisses the curb I strip just the powder magically without touching the surface of the yoyo. Or better yet some fine scratches get in the PC and a light buff or in some cases a reheat bye bye scratches.
I’ve had the opportunity to strip ano off plenty of yoyos and have seen my fair share of less than desired ano jobs. A grade stuff from the majors that would have some asking why they didn’t call it b grade or less.
I can only tell you what I know from my own experience. You on the other hand are commenting on antiquated experiences about something you once thought you knew about.
Your ignorance is excused by me.
Never mind, I don’t want to be a troll here. Ill save that for people I know.
It looks like you do amazing work Mucallibob and I don’t think anyone means you any disrespect.
I think Kyo is just trying to point out the physical limitations of powder coating to inform others. Your point regarding a powdercoated yoyo hitting a curb and then surviving unscathed is only possible because you are adding a ‘substantially thick’ layer of heat hardened paint on the yoyo. This ‘relatively thick layer’ (at least when compared to anodizing) carries with it weight. That weight, if not distributed perfectly has a possibility to induce vibe.
Sounds like your technique is well controlled and consistent which is great. Alternately, I suppose you could always just keep stripping and re-coating a yoyo until you got it perfectly smooth.
PS. I think it’d be significantly less confusing for people if you renamed your ‘flat ano’ powder coat treatment to something that isn’t so confusing. Maybe consider it an opportunity to market your treatment with a new name?
No but he’s certainly coming off as if the powder is a lesser product of what it can be. My choice of powder and application I would be willing to put up it up against ANY ano out there. This limits the types of powder but it can be just that good now.
Lets face it powder has gotten a bad reputation due to the fact that there is so many variables with it. I’ve had my issues with it and will continue to I’m sure. Make no mistake though times have changed.
I only call the powders by what the manufacturers call them. “Flat ano” is about as close to a real ano as your gonna get with the powders.
Also, remember, pointing to imperfections in a product do not necessarily constitute as a personal attack, but aside from saying things like this, i shall stay out of this, (I really won’t, but I just felt like saying that, it makes me feel better).
If your referring to me believe me I don’t take it personal. I just don’t care for people who talk about an issue they don’t understand.
I don’t comment on ano, until a few posts ago at least.
I am not, I never refer to anyone in unless i specifically mention their names. So no, I was not necessarily talking about you, not unless you fall into that group, and that is not really for me to say, as weather you do or don’t (as the case may be) if you were to ask me would only be my opinion, and that is something of little consequence. Take my comments as you will.
I should say “implying” me. Honestly bro I could care less.
I mainly do this because I am bored, and need a good laugh sometimes. I entertain myself with those comments, i find the wording comical, and as I said, read into my comments as you will, I was referring to people in general. and don’t worry, I don’t need any convincing that you don’t care… although I do find that when people say things like that they are trying to convince themselves, as they are usually the ones that need convincing, not the person they are telling, but I don’t know you well enough to pass judgement as to if you are one of those people or not, so I won’t make assumptions, because as said by an exceedingly rude telemarketer once “Well you know what they say about people who assume…”, I hung up on him, so I never did hear how it ended, but I am assuming it wasn’t nice.
By all means please pass judgement ;D
I tried, It got suck on the way out, and hurts :(, I’m sure I’ll feel much better when I’ve finished passing my judgement.
Kyo, you’re probably one of the people in this world I have a lot of respect for, but you might be underestimating a powder coat that is done correctly. Example:
Edit: Powder coats, while they may be more durable than anodize, I think it’s not as “hard” as anodize. What I mean is, I’ve noticed on powder coats, they accumulate small hairline scratches, similar to those found on raw yoyos or plastic yoyos after a while of use. Powder coats definitely take impacts better though.