Wait what? If you are thinking that I meant that $5-10 yoyos should be smooth, you are mistaken.
2 Likes
Itâs not a demand for perfection, itâs raw competition causing manufacturers to bow out. Itâs peopleâs always wanting something new thatâs hurting these manufacturers. Itâs the BST and Facebook forum taking away even more sales from manufacturers. Itâs that the YoyoExperts store, in just the 1A category, has 564 results for yoyos. Yes many are sold out, but 564!! And they donât even stock a lot of brands you can find elsewhere. The reality is that there are âgazillionsâ of different yoyos for sale at this very moment with dozens more added each year.
We are the enthusiasts in a niche community, and we are few in number. Going off the last poll I saw, 55% of this community own fewer than 25-49 yoyos. If you account for people that didnât bother to answer, the real percent is guaranteed to be much, much higher - probably in the 80% range if I had to guess.
So, itâs not vibe hurting the community, itâs sheer over saturation. Thereâs too many manufacturers now chasing the relatively tiny community size. Itâs survival of the fittest. If you canât make a âmedium-to-high-endâ vibe-less throw in 2020, there are dozens of other companies that can.
10 Likes
after reading every post in this thread. I have decided nobody needs the information I shared within my post.
Since there are so many masterminds contributing here.
My view seems unnecessary.
So I just archived it for posterity.
Iâm not sure if I want to spend the rest of the day throwing nothing but One Drops?
Or just break down and throw one of my vibey yoyos?
Most of the conversation after my post is quite interesting and thought provoking.
6 Likes
no, i know what you meant
and, it seems everyone who can work around a basic CAD program wants to do a couple little tweaks to an existing design and make the next Draupnir or Grail⌠how about less iteration, and more innovation⌠that would probably help with saturationâŚ
3 Likes
Iâve heard from many of the biggest manufacturers that they like the BST. It keeps hype up. It means they donât have to re-run old yoyos and can concentrate on new things but people can still get their hands on old yoyos. It lets people try a premium yoyo by a company without paying full price so that they might buy the next one at full price.
As a former medium sized manufacturer (Is that fair?) but now small sized one, I still like seeing people trade my yoyos. It means more people get to try them. Itâs interesting to see the used prices fluctuate and keep some track in my head as itâs important feedback.
Saturation is an issue, but itâs important to note that this is due to how easy it is to make a yoyo now and so many are. Itâs not because of the BST. If anything, I see the amount of new yoyos being released hurting the BST communities because people are only interested in the new new.
As for vibe, a new yoyo shouldnât vibe. If it vibes from a ding or other damage, thatâs part of the game. It shouldnât have any vibe out of the box, or from being unscrewed/used in general.
12 Likes
youâre first and third paragraphs appear conflicting. moreover, with any jo blo being able to pump out a yoyo these days, it would appear to make the bst thrive more. people, especially younger or newer cats, donât have to jump blindly into a rando brand to take a risk, cheap or not.
if youâve been on any bst lately, stating up-and-comers or smaller-than-boutique brands are hurting the bst community is quite obtuse. a couple flashes in the pan wonât replace years, generations of innovation and change.
1 Like
I donât see how theyâre conflicting. I may be misunderstanding your point?
Itâs not just new/small companies that are saturating the market. Saturation is the sum of all of the parts doing it. I donât think itâs a big enough issue to worry about, as stated before, itâs survival of the fittest and the market will let the strongest survive. Itâs more for company owners to think about than those buying as itâs a buyers market.
I donât think small companies are bad for the community. I just think theyâre contributing to the saturation of new models and when people are mostly interested in the new thing, theyâre less likely to buy the old things on the used market. Again, I donât think this is a big deal, itâs just something thatâs happening. Lots of choice is great for the consumer so itâs a net benefit.
Iâm not saying saturation itself is bad, perhaps I should have called it a talking point instead of an issue. Itâs something to be aware of, sure, but I donât think itâs something to get too worried about.
2 Likes
Man I almost typed a text wall but than I just thoughtâŚehh⌠its just a long winded post about why I stopped buying from yyf.
8 Likes
The poly edge, somewhat the butter.
2 Likes
I honestly think retail price should include âno defectsââŚ
1 Like
i have this conversation regularly with some of my peers - and iâm solely speaking from my âexperienceâ, i never claim to be an expert or omnipotent, lol. but, weâve definitely been seeing a greater appreciation for the organics and old school styles.
when i speak of brands that were innovative, instead of iterative, from the golden years, i immediately think of spyy. their shapes (ronin), styles (rsl), etc. it seemed like they were consistently pushing the boundaries of what they could do with a variety of shapes. i feel where weâve come to a point of iteration. granted, iâm not a performance throw type of guy, and maybe thatâs why? how much more of a v-shape can you make it? how many more metals can you add to it? inner ring/outerring? i know turning point and yyr are pushing performance boundaries. but, what is being innovated for the rest of the community (whereâs our parade?)
daytona sb - great example. but, thereâs 25. and, it took a while for those 25 to sell out. so only the handful of us that wanted them got them.
there have been a few pieces that came out recently that seemed gimmicky over innovative, like the christmas tree and petri (no offense to the brands, honestly). what staying power will they have? and that brings me back full circle to the bst, spyy, innovation, etc. if you put a ronin, rsl, etc. on the bst, that will get snatched up in a heartbeat. can you say the same about a petri or a christmas tree in 5, 10, 20 years?
2 Likes
@chaosgow Totally understand what youâre saying. Iâve been watching a few yoyos in the bst, just waiting to pull the trigger. Last night I see that there are a couple of interesting small company yoyos available for about the same price, from the store. I can do the pm thing and get used yoyos, inspect them, continue to communicate with the seller, or just buy new. Bst got put on the back burner this time around.
3 Likes
Innovation is great but I donât think itâs everything. Itteration is better because it slowly pushes us towards greatness. Big steps are always going to be rare. Make slow but steady steps towards better and youâll eventually arrive there. Striving for faster movement and youâll inevitably crash. I respect those reaching for the stars and trying. I think in the end itâs important to have both.
5 Likes
Iâd pick an iphone over a blackberry any day⌠x-box over atariâŚ
man never achieved greatness while watching other people do their best
2 Likes
I think iphone might be a bad example of innovation these days 
15 Likes
compared to a blackberry, no. but, to your point, lol, minor changes, iterations, flood the market with redundancy that some people will get bored with - and thatâs where iâm going. these tiny iterations turn into capitalist grabs⌠âwe made another colorâ, âwe added a line hereâ, âlook, this one has a tissue bag instead of a toilet paper bagâ⌠eventually, weâll get bored, us little peons will eventually want more and revolt
I feel like throwing more wood than metal the past 15 years has skewed my perspective⌠but I think waaaay too much is made vibe in general. Itâs one thing if itâs wobbling and stuttering like itâs got the DTs but I try to treat every yoyo like itâs the last one on earth. Usually I can find some enjoyment in it.
I sometimes fiddle with the action on my bass, trying to get it as low as possible with the straightest neck without buzzing. But really that mindset reveals that I just want something to fiddle with - something to complain about. And it keeps me from just playing and appreciating the groove. It works fine when I let it.
I get that people want a âquality productâ, but I also think that chasing an ideal of perfection you never really approach or appreciate where youâre at. Itâs just extra.
Donât forget YOU have a lot more vibe than your yoyo. Thereâs no atom on earth which isnât constantly alive with vibration - we all have to find home within the frequencies. (Or keep chasing absolute zero I guess.) And yet at the center of every yoyo, itâs always still. And in the State of Yo, all vibes harmonize.
19 Likes
Yes I agree with this. People are people, and theyâre not perfect, so theyâre not going to be able to make a perfect product every time. Thatâs what Iâm saying, there are a lot of yoyos that should be appreciated that are rejected because of vibe.
2 Likes
this!
i was having a discussion about vibe with someone on the forum, canât remember who, but i was discussing the subjective nature of vibe, and some things that could potentially impact one persons interpretation versus another⌠how long are their fingernails? how much coffee did they have? are they on meth?.. obviously some are tongue in cheek, but there are a variety of factors well beyond the physical object in your hand that can knock an â8.5/10â down to an â8/10â⌠like, are we that accurate in measurement, really? there are actual measurements, like, amplitude and frequency, that are measurable and quantifiable, ot someoneâs subjective interpretation, to measure these thingsâŚ
7 Likes