There's no need for a women's division at worlds


#1

I’m not saying this because “Its not fair”. It seems insulting to women, implying that there is some disadvantage that keeps them from becoming a world champion in the other divisions. What do you think?

Edit: I can see there being a need for it now, especially knowing that girls are able to compete in the world and women divisions.


#2

I don’t think the intention was to insult women but rather to encourage them to participate. Also, this way they absolutely ensure that any young girls looking to join the hobby have a ‘champion’ role model to look up to.

Yuki


#3

I was thinking that that could be the reason. I just got the vibe that it was implying that women yoyoers couldn’t compete with men at a world class level.


(Steve Brown) #4

Keep in mind that women’s divisions pretty much only exist in Europe, which is culturally a lot different than the US.

The intention is to provide a more visible platform for female players, who are very much a minority, to distinguish themselves and serve as more accessible role models for potential female players.

Whether or not this is the best way to do it has been pretty much constantly a source of discussion since the first time this division was implemented.


#5

I see both sides of the argument having merit.

I totally think that there is nothing holding back a woman from contending with the top tier of men. Other sports and competitions make sense to have a women’s division, because the top tier of women would never stand a chance against the top tier of men… But yoyoing isn’t like that. Long before anybody has the skills necessary to contend, they’ll have plenty strong enough of a throw, no matter what their physical shape or gender is… Beyond initial the throw, it’s all skill based, which women should have no issue matching men on.

On the other hand, like Yuki said, a women’s division will ensure that there is a female champion, which is something for younger female throwers to look up to, and might actually entice more females to start throwing. Hopefully this is the prime objective of the division, and eventually there will be enough female throwers where a women’s division is no longer necessary. If the division was created because they think that women aren’t as good as men, then it would be insulting.


#6

Why is there a women’s division in pool, chess, and other none physical competions?


#7

I think its a great thing to get more female yoyoers out on stage, it just so happens that the idea is so entrenched in our hobby that getting on stage in front of other yoyoers only makes sense to alot of people if its within a competition setting.
If it weren’t a competition then these issues of inequal/presumptive/biased competitive ground would be nonexistant. (they’re unfounded anyway)

tl:dr I see It as a great way for a minority within our community to get up and show what they got, regardless of the score sheets.


#8

(double post)


#9

Shouldn’t it just be the non competitive division then?


#10

I think it’s even more detrimental to turn it into a non-competitive division. That’d effectively be saying “nothing you do here really counts”. There’s absolutely nothing stopping females from competing in both the main draw and the women’s divisions (from memory, Ann Connolly did it at the EYYC last year or the year before).

Yuki


#11

Here is an idea, have a women’s division but have it earlier in at Worlds. Have there be a Women’s Champion but also make it so that the top 1, 2, or 3 depending on how many entrants move directly to the final round in the main tournament. Treat it as a qualifying round of sorts.


#12

I’m not saying it should be non-competitive, I’m saying it has inherent merit even before the clickers come out.

(Btw it is exactly that attitude that I disagree with Yuki, I think getting on stage and showing off your creations to your creative peers counts alot!
and I’m not just talking about womens division anymore, to some extent what the judges write down is the part that doesn’t matter so much)


#13

How? What’s the point of two competitive divisions at the same contest? It just puts people on stage who don’t deserve to be there.


#14

I think arguing over this is silly. If there be a need or not for it, the women’s division can in no way be to a woman’s disadvantage competitively. If a woman chooses to compete in the women’s, let her. And if she chooses the other division, let her, and let her win if she can.


#15

Please note: As far as I can tell no woman has commented on this discussion.


(Former National 4A Champion) #16

A women’s division is not insulting at all, unless you are really sensitive. No woman is even close to winning worlds or even making it to finals.


#17

that sir, is bollocks.

If someone wants to get on stage put on a show of their own, original material then they deserve to be there, end of.


(Former National 4A Champion) #18

It’s not like anyone deserves to be on stage. The only reason there is a contest at all is because some people took time to organize it. If they want to have a women’s division that is okay. It’s sort of like having an amateur division.

I don’t think that’s very good of an idea. The women’s champion probably won’t even be at semi-final level. Maybe a seed to prelims or semifinals; a seed to finals is too much.


#19

I think it gives women-throwers something to aim for. If they’re heading into contest knowing they’ll be lucky to make it past semi finals it’ll be disheartening and fewer ladies will want to compete. The fewer ladies seen competing, the more it’s just going to seem like a royal sausagefest and the fewer young women are going to want to take up the hobby themselves.

Why do you think Yoyofactory pays so much shipping Ann all over the world? They’re trying to encourage more females to take up the hobby and throwing her out in the public eye is a great way of doing that.

As Steve pointed out:

Yet, it only takes watching a few of [insert purple fonted Prague-based yoyo store here]'s videos to see that there are a lot more European women taking up throwing than there are American. You can’t argue with results… anything that gets more people throwing is never a bad thing.

Oh and finally, Mimi Thian for Worlds 2014! waves flag


(Amplified) #20

Maybe we should as women throwers how they feel about have a division to themselves. A dudes point of view might not have as much insight.