The Ti-Vayder Experience

(Mark) #106

I hope everything can get sorted out on the backend to ensure all parties are treated fairly. In the end, this is at least a gorgeous concept and kudos to @codinghorror for getting the ball rolling and including a good cause with PurpleYoYo!

Now can anyone help me lift this print as I’m looking to open a new credit card and buy an authentic Vader costume for about $4K – not including lightsaber :money_mouth_face:


While I find the intention here noble, I want offer a perspective and touch on the industry implications of such a project. Your stated aim to get everyone what you believe to be the greatest yoyo ever could in fact be damaging your chances of something better being created.

It’s great to be able for everyone to get great cheap ti yoyos or great any yoyos for that matter. Any action however will have a reaction and here I see the creation of what is essentially a shadow in the market. In this Shadow nothing grows. You will see a decrease potential innovation and future design progress. Small yoyo makers, like the one whose design you are emulating will not have the ability to produce and publish designs until the glut of yoyos and the inevitable resale market for them dissipates. It creates a hostile environment and the environment is tough enough. Ti yoyos have a perceived price. That price is already low by industry standards with margins already very low. Any scale manufacturer will find no lower return on investment than making Ti yoyos . The price expectations were already built on small manufacturers (and even retailers) accepting a lower margin on ‘marquee’ items. For this reason there are periods in time no Ti yoyos were available retail. We have been guilty of this. Ti Dream was only like 3 years ago. There were no full sized titanium yoyos available consistently and we didn’t price high enough to grow a sustainable market. However within 6 months of release there were 5 or 6 more titanium yoyos in the market so we didn’t scorch the earth too bad.

I might totally wrong, and I could totally make an argument this could be enough to push people past titanium and we could finally get the next step in innovation as a result of this. Anyway it was a thought that was rattling around in my head I thought worthy of adding to the conversation.

Separately, i wanted to offer a cautionary tale when producing any titanium yoyos in quantity. Tool wear is vicious and it is hard to create many identical parts. Even your vendor had some issues with numbered yoyo releases I believe? We did with Ti dream. 3rd party fulfillment without a final qc inspection on every piece is a risk. :v:t3:

(ClockMonsterLA) #108

A few comments:

  • I am very happy to see Heath’s involvement in this. It legitimizes the project in the eyes of the community at large, which is nothing but win for this project.
  • Jeff had been trying to reach Heath from the beginning, so any and all accusations that Jeff had no (ethical) regard for the provenance of the design is flat out wrong.
  • This is not the TiWalker. That yoyo will continue to enjoy its legendary status and collector value no matter how many TiVayders get produced.
  • The speed with which this topic has generated over 100 posts is a strong indicator of just how much pent up demand there is for something like this. Kudos to Jeff for identifying that demand and summoning the chutzpah to generate the necessary supply.
  • I think some people are ignoring the fact that Jeff intends to make zero profit off this (all profits going to a charity). His objective is not to get rich(er), but to make yoyoers happy. It takes a rather shriveled black heart to find something sinister or self-serving in all of this.


-You can’t patent a yoyo design, only gimmicky features AFAIK.

-Heath had the opportunity to make more Ti Walkers - the community was clamoring for them and has been for years. He decided not to.

-It’s an improvement on the old design, so not a 1-for-1 remake.

-Jeff isn’t doing this for pure profit.

I guess I sort understand the hubbub, but it sounds more like a case of sour grapes.

I have a Ti Walker and a D Runner, and I fully intend to pick one of these up and I’ll feel zero remorse or guilt for doing so.

(Jordan Blofeld) #110

I had a similar fear when I did the DR and now the Wanker. I don’t think I’ve hurt the industry. When you have people like Pang who bang out $300+ yoyos regularly (because he’s excellent at storytelling and marketing) the stronger will survive.


I just wanted everyone to know that @HVizier and I exchanged many PMs last night, and the raw proto from the pic is already on its way to him in today’s (Saturday) mail.

From my perspective it was a very positive exchange and Heath asked for a few things that I was happy to do, and fit the project as initially envisaged.

I appreciate the comments from @yyfben2 and that is also why this was set up as a more or less one time charity benefit “special event” run from the outset. I am definitely not starting a yo-yo company.

I cannot speak for Heath, of course, but speaking for myself, I am very optimistic things can move forward. And, personally, I’m excited! It feels great to bring things to life and put cool stuff in the hands of fellow yo-yoers. Having Heath be able to be formally involved is a wonderful surprise on top of that!

(Justin ) #112

I’m glad you guys were able to talk this out and keep this project moving forward. I like it when we’re all together as a content yoyo community :smile:


And if you need the dv888 cad file for the follow up… I have it ready


The Ti-Dv-888! Just what everyone needed!

(Jacob Waugh) #115

LOL, so true.


(Spinworthy Glen) #117

Well someone around here likes the DV888 @yyfben2!

I’m glad you liked the yoyo I sent in that smells like your old garage in Newcastle.

(Ken) #118

Thank You.


Looking forward to this!


With all this Vader talk and Heath’s history with the community my mind goes straight to the Return of the Jedi scene where Vader is finally redeemed. So maybe, in a way this was meant to be? Nah maybe I’m just up late reaching :yum:

(Evan Landreneau) #121

Woah, this topic has 49 hearts


I’m Okay guys and gals, things are moving along smoothly. Jeff and I spoke directly via phone chat for a while this afternoon about this run and the future of VsN. I should have a proto Ti Vayder in my hands this week. Things are looking incredibly optimistic.

At this point I am 95% sure that this is happening, and when I say this, I’m referring to not only the Ti Vayder, but also the return of Vs. Newton.

Yep. You read that right. It may in fact be that time.


Amazing news! I updated the first post at the top to indicate we’re almost official now.


Please more skywalkers man, mine needs some brothers and sisters

(Victorian YoYos) #125

Yay, we pulled through and got along! :tada: