Than you can look after God-Tricks, Yoyofficer, King Yo Star, Break Beat Yo, Top Yo and Duncan Echo & Metropolis. All great products around 40-60$.
And even for China market is Magic yo-yo extremly cheap and is considered low end brand.
First of all there is nothing simple in this, There are so many factors involved its impossible to include them all.
This is becoming a very misunderstood and misinterpreted notion that China’s product prices are the direct result of poor working conditions and pay. It’s not. This is a stereotype that had some truth 10+ years ago but it is no longer true to generalize this much today.
Where do you think your Iphone 5 comes from? Shenzhen China. The same city that Magic yoyo comes out of. In the West, you get what you pay for, and in China it is no different. Your dollar store calculator with half of the buttons missing was probably made by a underaged underpaid worker, but when you want that Iphone, you have to pay good money to get it made by someone who knows what they are doing, and China does so because they have to.
The reason a performance metal yoyo can be sold for $10 does not mean it was a result of poor working conditions. It means it does not take much to make it. Which is why companies with $100 yoyos have to sell them by labeling them unique and limited editions.
Regarding working hard…this is another misunderstood notion that working hard means you deserve the wages. The important thing often left out is working hard on what? Working hard making a new acid splash colour effect? Working hard tweaking a previously designed shape? Working hard advertising your overpriced toy?
Or working hard to bring down the prices so more kids and afford it and grow the yoyoing culture?
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Hmmm…My dv88 says made in…where?
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Double tap…and my Yomega Raiders
You seem to be missing some information in your generalizations. I’m sorry to tell you that it DOES cost that much to design and produce a yoyo. A license to most CAD programs costs $4,000 and up. Plus, since most people in the country don’t have a collage degree in these types of fields, or own a CNC machine (Which cost MANY thousands of dollars), they have to outsource it to someone else. This raises prices. Also, anodizing isn’t cheap. While you may have touched on the fact that you don’t need splash colors, it has become expected in the yoyo industry.
Additionally, you haven’t taken into account the small number of people in the market. Let’s say there are 6,000 yoyo enthusiasts (Probably about right) in the whole world. Does it make sense to produce that many a month? No, it doesn’t. A majority of the yoyo world wont buy your yoyo. Take the Dark Magic I/II. Very poplar yoyo and many people buy them, yet not as many people as you’d think actually own one. Why is this? Because people resell them. Many of them end up getting sold to people that quit yoyoing after a few months.
Sorry, but this is just not true. I work for a company that deals with this kind of stuff and have direct knowledge of how it works. Large corporations do all the engineering and planning and then take their model to China where labor is much cheaper. They build the plants and manufacturing lines and just plug in cheap labor. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work on an assembly line making an iPhone. The genius in that comes WAY before it ever hits China.
In the same way, creating a yoyo is all done on software. All they have to do is have an operator man a cnc lathe, push the green button and in a few minutes you have a yoyo half. Now this is also where good quality separates itself from the usual low quality coming from China. A good machinist, like the guy from One Drop for example, can create much better parts than a laborer who doesn’t care what he’s churning out as long as he gets a paycheck. And that is why companies pay a premium for good machine shops. There are plenty of North American machine shops who can’t turn out quality halves. Heck, we have even seen CLYW struggle to find one in their early days.
If you want to keep playing cheap Chinese yoyos, go ahead. I prefer to spend more money and support those who are supporting the yoyo community worldwide. I appreciate their hard work and effort, and actually caring about their art.
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I think that the people who are supplying high quaity metal yoyos for less than $20 support the yoyo community more than companies who charge $200 for a couple ounces of aluminum.
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I wouldn’t call the aluminum yoyos you can buy for $20 high quality. However, I will agree with you in the sense that it enables a larger demographic to own an aluminum yoyo. On the other hand, I wonder how much product or $ Magic has donated to the community through sponsorships or other means?
this much.
Excellent. Glad to see it.
I’ve seen pic of Magic sponsoring contests. Plus, If you think they aren’t high quality you haven’t tried them. I’d say the N12 compares to my KLR.
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I have tried them.
I have the t5, n5, t6, n8, t10, & n12 for a total investmet of around $75. I’ll keep talking them up.
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Let’s talk about the n12 for a moment.
It’s made out of 6061. It’s a very modern shape, we all love. It’s smooth as any $100+ should be. It’s as stable as a $100+ should be. It looks like it’s worth 5-10x it’s price. The ano is flawless and beautiful. The engravings are super nice to look at… And it could very well hold it’s own with my General Yo’s. gasp Did SkyHigh just say something near blasphemous? How dare he even think about saying stuff like this… he must not have a very diverse collection or know a good throw when he sees one… what a noob… he should buy a Chief or something.
P.S. I’m not worried about $$$$, I spent over $450+ on Plastic Yoyo’s in February this year. If I really wanted “High performance, high quality, cough, expensive” metal yoyo’s, that I thought for sure blew MagicYoYo out of the water… well, frankly… Then I wouldn’t consider buying MagicYoYo
I mean, I still do pay the premium for expensive yoyo’s that I want, I do have quite a few “High End” yoyo’s… None of which I would go as far to say are much better than the MagicYoYo N12. I would go as far to say that my N12 can perform just as well at my 7075 Majesty. Oh my god, Did he just say that?!?! Ahem,Money won’t buy you skills, nor will the differences in a N12 and a Majesty give you an advantage on the playing field.
Give me a list of reasons why a $160+ can out perform the N12. Please?
I know you guys like to toss around this conception that “Magic yoyo’s are cheap chinese low quality yoyos”.
Sure, they might even be considered “Low end” in china…
But can you explain to me… why you consider your $160+ CLYW to be more “High Quality” than a Magic YoYo?… Performance wise, I don’t want to get into a debate on how Magic YoYo aren’t expensive enough. Let’s ignore the dollar signs.
Let’s assume I handed you a 100% mint N12 and a 100% mint Chief. Let’s also assume these two yoyo’s are both made by a USA manufacturer, and cost exactly the same price. Now, I want you to sound off about why the Chief is “Higher Quality”, especially in terms of performance. …I’ll be waiting…
Please don’t make assumptions either… like “Oh a lot of these factories have underaged workers”. Did you really even do research to make these claims? Do you throw derogatory claims around about everything you don’t like? Again, where’s your research about MagicYoYo’s factory??
Oh, and here’s a response to the claims about MagicYoyo doing nothing for the community, despite them offering up just as much as Yoyojam and Duncan… Lol? I mean really? Do you guys just make these stupid claims all day about everything?
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/377348_323179987778713_1229825567_n.jpg
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/480411_10151033733524344_1498062549_n.jpg
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/575921_393441070720717_1118232581_n.jpg
Also, if you want to see a funny picture related to MYY, this was on one of their retailers shops… I think this beats the ad displaying Jensen throwing a Northstar… (P.S. MagicYoyo doesn’t run retailer shops, they are not the one’s throwing pictures of Jensen around, uninformed shop owners are. That’s like blaming Vizio for Walmart advertising a Vizio as a LG… not Vizio OR LG’s fault)
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Yes, I have generalized. I wrote under the assumption that a local manufacturer is not making only yoyo’s as their production, therefore equipment for initial setup is indeed expensive. I assumed the local manufacturers put out runs of yoyos using the same machines they use for other projects (ie: SPYY). However since in the same post you acknowledge the small number of yoyo enthusiasts, I don’t see why a local manufacturer would invest in those machines to make only yoyos to begin with.
EDIT-Upon re-reading, I may have gone off your point. You are referring to yoyo companies who don’t own their own machines and want to outsource locally. Yes in that case I agree prices will go up. However a company like that needs to accept that will stay small and not become very profitable - more as a side project. The problem comes when these companies feel like they own the niche yoyo market and try to prevent mass made Chinese yoyos from being distributed. They want to maintain their competitive edge even though their business strategy was not meant to compete for profits to begin with.
Unless I’m missing something from your post, you seem to contradict yourself. First you say all it takes to make a yoyo is software and someone to push a button on an automated machine. Then you say a skilled machinist from One Drop makes a superior yoyo…what exactly is that machinist doing that makes a superior yoyo?
I don’t have experience in yoyo manufacturing in particular, but I help manage my dad’s company who imports automobile parts and tiles from China. A example is we take a genuine Honda brake pad to China, they do performance testing and element analysis, then produce their own formulation that surpasses the Hondas in all tests. Then they produce them on Italian and German made machines. Final product to our door is less than 1/2 price of local retail. The factory workers are not careless idiots who only care about their paycheck. There are skilled materials engineers and machinists working there and they try their darn hardest to win your business as an importer because there are 20+ other manufacturers in the same area that are competing…
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I made no claims that MYY did nothing for the community. It was an honest question that I did not know. I got an answer, and I replied. But you didn’t bother to read that.
All of the MYY’s I have played, which is most of them, I thought were subpar. My opinion. I have not played the N12 however.
I consider other brands, like CLYW, SPYY, among others premium because of the way they play and look. I have not experienced that with MYY.
Never claimed money would buy you skills.
You’re right, I shouldn’t make assumptions or generalize all Chinese factories. My fault.
My original point here in this thread was to say that the reason North American throws are priced the way they are is because of labor costs. I think if people knew what it really cost compared to what it cost in China they would be surprised. To say that North American companies are gouging is not something I would do. Most follow the retail formula from the companies cost to wholesale to retail. And I know some instances where retailers are making more than the manufacturer just so they can keep the cost down.
If you like MYY, by all means buy them.
This is where I leave this thread alone.
I agree with you that the $100 yoyos really do cost that much to make and that a huge profit is not made. I implied this in my very first post.
The thing I wanted to point out is, the extra costs for that $100 went towards appearance and other design tweaks to make it unique (side effects anyone?). Efficiency of production and bringing down costs was never the center of attention.
I don’t have a problem with that business model at all. It suites the niche boutique market.
The problem I have is the mentality that these businesses build up to convince consumers that their $100 yoyo is superior to the cheap Chinese “knockoffs” with terms like “superior manufacturing” like as if putting a “MADE IN USA” stamp is the official seal of quality. Then they label the Chinese made ones as all “knockoffs” and won’t allow them in this market.
I mean cmon, they chose a business model that is slow growth and not for competition. Then they want to have their cake and eat it too?
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Honestly, I don’t see these companies claiming superiority over anyone. They promote their brand as the best yoyos on the market, regardless of location, as they should. The ones I see claiming superiority is the consumers. And that’s all opinions, and opinions aren’t wrong. I’ll admit, I haven’t been into yoyoing as long as most of you so my observations may not be as in tune as yours are, but this is what I have observed so far.
You’re right, you didn’t go make such claims etc, I kinda went off, haha. I do apologize for taking some things you said out of context. I wasn’t just responding to you, but rather in general people who have negative opinions about MYY in general. But again, I am sorry. Like I said, I still buy expensive North American yoyo’s, but I play my cheap MYY’s waaay more. It just sucks that more often than not, MagicYoYo is getting the crap end of the stick.
Just off the bat, lets get this straight, I like Magic YoYos. In fact, I highly recommend them to anyone on a budget. With that said, I would never consider them the same quality as American or European made yoyo’s. Here are a few reasons why:
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Most Magic YoYo’s use a cheaper alloy. While you may say, “But they still play well” continuous unscrewing of the yoyo will cause the threads to not be as precise anymore, so the axle wont fit quite right. This causes vibe.
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Most lack a desirable surface finish. While that shiny anodized finish looks cool, when you accidentally bump your hand, it spins right out. While this may not be a problem to some, others may find it more problematic. Especially those who are excessively sloppy or do a lot of grinding tricks.