How many yoyos, other than plastics, are actually made in batches of ~2000?
I have no clue. Iām just calling up some random production numbers as examples. But I suspect Magicyoyo gets up to those numbers. And probably some Yoyofactory batches as well?
But itās all just guesswork from me.
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That could be, but i donāt really have a clue either. It seems like most runs are more like in the hundreds.
20, 200 or 2000 per run, I suspect the real difference is an OEM that can spread the cost of materials, equipment, QC, logistics, marketing etc. across production that spans multiple runs.
TopYo can sell great yo-yos are every price point starting at $15. They may use lower grade materials in lower priced models (7003 AL, lower quality bearings), but Iām not sure that corner cutting can explain the prices when the product is still smooth, well finished and durable.
There are a lot of dark insinuations about manufacturing in certain parts of the world, some well founded in general, but Iām not sure that these generalizations are useful when it comes to relatively tiny scale, speciality manufacturers.
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For me itās not just about how smooth a yoyo is.
Itās more about can I unscrew it as many times as it want without fear of damage and can I take the bearing on and off as many times as I need without damage.
A yoyo can be of very smooth and feel nice, but if it squeals when itās unscrewed and I can see the threads are getting damaged a little each time then thatās a quality of construction issue to me. If I have to work a bearing back and forth with a tool and get some pliers out just to remove it and when I get it out I see damage on the bearing shaft, then I see that as a construction flaw too.
Iām not saying this is the case with all yo-yos machined in China, just that Iāve only experienced this with yo-yos machined in China.
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To be fair, the tight bearing seat and/ or axle threads are probably intentional to reduce the traces of vibe that so many people freak out about, not so much an indication that they canāt hold the same tolerances as anyone else
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Exactly this. Better tight than loose for most.
My fpm machined throw letās be pull the bearing off with my fingers but is dead smooth. A lot of the throws Iāve had where you can pull the bearing off with your fingers have some sort of nail vibe.
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I think the charge is that a too-tight interface is a compromise that is required because it is too difficult/expensive to achieve the ideal spec.
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You wont find real critical discussion about this topic here because frankly it isnt allowed.
Posts I have made surrounding this topic have been removed in the past and I have since concluded (and understand) that the moderators do not wish for the intricacies of this topic to be discussed here.
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Iāve had Chinese yoyos for 15 years, made with cheap aluminum that Iāve disassembled dozens and dozens of times and theyāre still perfect (Auldey L3, Virus, Aoda Pyramide, etc.) while I remember the ridiculous disclimer of what has always been one of the two biggest Japanese stores that in the last period that sold Yoyorecreation (many years ago now) asked not to unscrew the yoyos of this brand for the risk of incurring vinrations and in case they would not have refunded the yoyos, therefore, I repeat: what weāre talking about!?
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I get that the tight bearing seat is intentional. To me that is a design and construction flaw that reduces durability. Obviously just my opinion and others may not see it this way.
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I get what you are saying. This just has not been my experience with cheap yo-yos.
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I donāt care where my yoyos are made. I do, however, care about supporting companies that a) do good work b) treat their people well. I feel this way about most things I buy, though. Gotta put your $ where your mouth is.
Thereās a restaurant I really like in town but itās well documented that the owner is abusive. I donāt eat there anymore, though I miss the food and drink.
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but it was mine, from 2008 onwards. what can I tell you, also considering Albertinoās experiences, we Italians will be particularly lucky, bhoā¦
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I canāt say played these brands much if at all, so maybe we arenāt comparing apples to apples.
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tell me about your experiences, tell me which models and brands you are referring toā¦
Tolerance costs money. In order to have the bearing post the right size where its tight enough to be smooth but loose enough to be able to remove the bearing without damage is .0002". This is insane, even for aerospace, but at One Drop we do it. No one else attempts because of cost reduction - itās too expensive to do this because when you miss, the parts are bad so production loss is much higher.
So the solution is a bigger tolerance range that biases the tight side. This is why many non-One Drops have the squeak or need a bearing removal tool. This is intentional. This solution is understandable because holding .0002" on an anodized part verges on impossible because anodizing tolerance itself is .0006". This is one the reasons why our competitors yoyos cost less. I guess we are a little bit crazy.
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The problem with tight is that over time you damage the bearing post when you take the bearing off and they end up vibey any way.
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I know nothing about any of this stuff but Iāve been curious recently. Iāve noticed with one of my yoyos the bearing seat is really loose now to the point I can pull the bearing out by hand and it is still pretty smooth. Another yoyo was super tight from the gate to the point it would squeak when I would close it back apart. Once that oneās bearing seat wore down it became pretty vibey. What causes one to be smooth and the other to vibe? Is there different ways in doing tight tolerances that makes one not as vibey as the other?
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Thatās a good observation. There are a number of factors that play into smoothness.
First thing, is itās impossible to make them perfect so there is always some amount of error. The design of the yoyo makes a big difference. We think of it as each model can tolerate a certain amount of error. What the means is that each model is easier or harder to make smooth. As it turns out with physics, very generally speaking, the kind of designs people want are the same kind that donāt tolerate error very well - things like being wide and having lots of axial rim weight.
There are a number of tolerances other than the bearing post that affect smoothness as well. So the amount of error in a particular yoyo is a cumulation of different critical tolerances (the bearing post is one of the most important but not the only one).
You can have a yoyo with a damaged bearing post still be smooth if the other tolerances are good and the design has the right amount of error tolerance. Simplied, you have the amount of error a design can tolerate and then you have the actual of amount of error in a discrete sample. If there is more error than what can be tolerated, there will be vibe. If not, then smooth.
We have our Physics Doctor friend, Dirty Birdy who has done a lot of work in this area so he can do analysis of our CAD before we cut metal and let us know how tolerant of error it is. We developed general ideas over the years and are pretty good at predicting, but Dirty Birdy is using math and itās very accurate. So now we have him do an analysis of every model before we do any cutting.
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