Luftverk Evora!!!!

General Yo-Yo
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Yeah, my only take-away message from this thread is “shoot, I should have pulled the trigger.”

The recurring pattern I’ve noticed with this forum is that one or two people will express a dissenting opinion and then the thread devolves into a series of posts about why they’re wrong. The party poopers naturally feel compelled to respond and a back and forth is created. Debate is a healthy part of communication, and it’s natural for conversations to deviate from their original topic, but sometimes it would be better just to let a minority opinion go unchallenged.

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Holy smokes this blew up! I need to start visiting the forums more often! :o

I love how polarizing the hub has been. Either love or hate. An object that generates some emotion, positive or negative is always a good thing. I designed this first run for myself, so I know there will be some people who won’t like it.

[quote=“NathanC,post:54,topic:75263”]
You should check out the latest Blog post on our website. I talked about this exact thing. Just the industry changing. I came from times when yoyo releases were once or twice a month. Its not that retailers were more picky back then - but there were no yoyos to pick from. There were only a handful of companies. I watched CLYW and ILYY from the first form posts on YYN. Now there is a post like that week.

Then why did a huge company like YYF have to Kickstart their titanium yoyo? Give you a hint - its not that they didn’t have enough money to fund it. :stuck_out_tongue:

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I’m sure they had enough money to fund it too, but it was also a way to get people personally involved in the project. It was a lot of things, a way to gauge the extent of community involvement, the support for the company, and that particular vision. They did not “have” to do it at all, that’s just the way they chose to do it. It was a lot more fun that way too, so why not? If 45 was the goal, they could have sold them in a day too. So, my statement still stands. Oh, and they would only have to sell 42, because I bought three of them. :smiley: It’s a great model too, at a great price.

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Why did I have to be in Vegas when this released!! >:(

I’m sure people have already asked this but, will there be another run?

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I agree with TA that YYF didn’t “have” to crowdfund. But they chose to in order to mitigate risk, not just to “have fun”. And I am also quite positive YYF did not sell 45 in one day. Indiegogo makes it hard to confirm, because back that far they just say that there was contribution “3 months ago”. They round off.

I love… LOVE what YYF did with their titanium project. Can’t wait to get my box. In case it’s not clear in this thread, Jeff seems to be friends with Ben, and himself has a Titanium Dream that he has posted photos of on social media. Not meaning to speak for Jeff, but I don’t think his comment was a “bash” at YYF but rather drawing attention to the fact that 45 titaniums isn’t a “no-brainer sell out” and even YYF had to be careful about it because of the high cost price.

Anybody who hasn’t read this blog yet should give it a read:

“[Selling out] was completely unexpected and absolutely blew me away.”

He just seems to love yoyo and is still excited to be one of the people contributing to “the scene”. Can’t see how anyone can find something negative in that.

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He brought up the YoyoFactory thing, so I consider it perfectly fine to discuss it. The reason why there is no comparison, is because YoyoFactory’s goal right out of the gate was far more than 45. That means that people had time to save up, and decide when to pull the trigger. They could actually see how many were purchased, and how fast they were selling too. I know, because that’s what I was doing. Also, they knew on the back end, there would be a production run of the YoyoFactory titaniums at a higher cost. So, there was not the sense of buy now, or you may not get one later. So, how quickly Yoyofactory’s sold cannot be compared to these (more available immediately, advertised production at a later date). They were totally different circumstances. Also, mitigating cost of 45 and mitigating cost of hundreds is a different circumstance too.

When there is a post in a yo-yo store, about a yo-yo that was for sale (especially elsewhere), people may post about why they bought one, or why they chose not to. The board is full of it, and everyone else who makes yo-yos has to deal with it in here. So, the rules will not change because of who made the yo-yo.

I wonder if Jeffrey will let us know, if he returns, about potential future plans to sell through retail. And, whether the raw one will be released at some point is of interest too.

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They didn’t. It took them roughly 4 days. And by the time those 45 yoyos were sold, 155 other yoyos/shipping/whathaveyou got sold as well.

Agreed. Back in the YYN days I wan’t around but I can still relate to this sentiment as even I’ve noticed something similar. Both Ti projects brought back some of that excitement, each in its own way.

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Tell you what:

My Dream box is finally here in Ottawa. I can pick it up tomorrow after 1:00pm. This is possibly the most excited I’ve ever been for a yoyo.

My Luftverk will be on its way before too long and the anticipation will be just as exquisite. :slight_smile:

The yoyo community is lucky to have people willing to try different approaches and do different things. YYF broke new ground as far as I’m concerned, with not only the design but the crowd-sourcing and marketing efforts for the Dream. Luftverk brought design in a whole different “breath of fresh air” direction, and I’m led to believe both finishes are quite special in their own way. Jeff and his company are a class act. BOTH those projects are labours of love in their own way. Ben’s and Jeff’s excitement for their yoyos are legitimate and palpable. It’s wonderful.

And just for good measure, let’s mention that Shawn and David (One Drop) have gotten an entire community excited about their own entry to the field-- bearing yet another different design, but emerging as yet another labour of love. I don’t know if it’s because the material is expensive and the machining difficult, but when all 3 of these companies decided to do Titanium, they held nothing back and they didn’t “phone it in”. That’s simply awesome.

In any event: less criticism, more love. That’s what I’m for.

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And the fun doesn’t stop there because I’m aware of one more exciting Ti project…

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I guess since these will be shipped via Canada post everyone will get them in about 10-12 months or so? :-\

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That has not been my experience. I think the lowest service level you can even buy to the U.S. is 10-12 (business) day delivery. I’ve heard of shipments getting stuck at the border from time to time, but it’s not the norm and after several dozen transactions it still hasn’t happened to me yet (knock on wood).

Being shipped from Canada never previously stopped batches of CLYW FG from making it to their buyers.

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Maybe it’s not been too bad for you getting stuff shipped into Canada…but I can assure you that it has never worked so swell the other way! Canada’s well known for one of the worst postal systems in the world. It’s the very reason why a lot of people won’t ship there at all. And yes indeed…i’ve had issues with CLYW FG. - not only the amount of time it takes them to get it out of Canada…much less having shipped items show up without more than one attempt! I’ve heard word that it’s somewhat been improved… Hopefully it’s gotten better over the past year or so.

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My transactions have gone both ways, and there have been many. The quickest of all was 4 business days from Canada TO the U.S.A. Sent on a Monday, arrived within the week. I assume it was Friday, but I didn’t write it down or anything. :wink:

Canada Post sometimes sucks, I’ll give you that. But it’s not THAT bad, and I haven’t heard universal revile. There’s a thread around here somewhere about how easy it is to ship to Canada, and many BST’ers will support that. The reason so many people refuse to ship to/from Canada is because it’s the “unknown”. I’ve had any number of people tell me in non-ambiguous terms “I’m afraid… because I’ve never done it before…”. That’s by far the more common reason for people not shipping.

The US/Canada post interchange isn’t lightning quick. But it’s fine. Has worked for a lot of us for years. And if you pay for a tracked service level then it’s doubly-so. Faster as well as being tracked.

Some Googling makes it pretty easy to debunk your statement. And I’m only invested in this because there ARE people who will read your statement as fact, which could hurt Canadian yoyo makers and also limit my ability to BST. :wink:

Which country has the world's best postal service? Here are the top 6 - syracuse.com – U.S. does great, but Canada is still in the top 5. Hardly “well known” as “one of the worst” except by people who haven’t actually looked into it.

USPS Ranks Last Among Postal Services Worldwide, Report Finds - Government Executive – nothing to do with service, so slightly off-topic. But that sort of stuff has a trickle-down effect.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/12/15/canada-post-rankings-g20_n_1150523.html - still top 10 of the G20. I’m not claiming it’s the “best”, but it’s not the worst. Note that U.S. rankings depend largely on efficiency per-carrier which is high. Or which a jerk could read as, “The USPS heavily overworks their carriers”. :wink:

Anyhow…

Sorry for the derailment, Jeff and Co.! I have our nation’s honour to uphold! Haha. :wink:

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Go check the old YYN forums and do a search for “Canada post” and tell me how much universal revile you see there! There was constantly a rant on the problems with Canada’s postal system. Unfortunately, it’s not just a problem with how long it takes…it’s also the mountains of paperwork they require someone to fill out for customs just to send something there. You say 4 days is the fastest you’ve seen there? I get packages from Japan with $10 shipping tracked and delivered in 2-3 days consistently! I don’t know…I don’t live there in Canada so I don’t know if it has gotten better over the past couple years, but if it keeps the Canadians happy I guess it’s all good.
As long as your using google to debunk statements…I noticed you missed this one from CANADA!  :Phttp://www.pressreader.com/canada/national-post-latest-edition/20150519/281728383101478/TextView

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Any real idea when we will see tracking numbers? Jeff if you’re lurking?

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Greg, thank you for your posts.

Most people don’t understand the front end that goes into launching one yoyo, let alone something as complex as a yoyo in a new/different metal as Titanium.

The biggest thing for me, the start up costs, costs to test, and upfront financial loading that you must do in order to have a successful launch.

The YYF crowd fund was genius. Inbound marketing is the new direction in the industry and they have done it very well. When the cost of raw materials is exponentially higher than other materials we are used to, the cost of entry into the market may be too much risk for any company, even one as big as YYF. Due to this, one of two choices must be made, try to offset the cost (crowd fund) or do a small limited run (as Jeffrey did).

The crowd fund idea gave them what they needed to really go “crazy” with it and offer some pretty exciting things to the community, and we all appreciate the excitement. It gave them intense “hype” or what we in the industry call “inbound marketing”. Enough brand recognition that people come searching for you as opposed to the traditional branding approach of 10+ exposure moments for you to decide if you want to purchase.

JP on the other hand did it in a much smaller way, but still effective… his funds were limited and fronting the cost of this run came out of his pocket. He is not looking to get rich, ask Chris at CLYW, one of the most sought after and successful return top companies, he is not rolling on 20s… or maybe he is… haha

The yoyo world is not one of high earnings, but these guys are trying to do something for us junkies and yet, we constantly bash… it’s too small, too big, I want 500, I want a limited run…

We are SPOILED, we have new and exciting throws every two weeks now. I blame no one but the buyers, the throwers, for acting like spoiled children and not appreciating that we are living in the peak of yoyo history. I ordered an Evora, because I could see that Jeffrey put so much love into his throw. I didn’t order a YYF, not my cup of tea… I want a CiTizen, there are certain CLYWs I don’t like, there are some I LOVE… it’s a great time to be a thrower, we have more options than a fat kid has fast food choices on a main thorough way.

I appreciate what Ben did, what Jeffrey did, what Chris does what Paul Dang and the OD people do, what Joey at 2 sick, Colin at OUT, what every person that has decided to create a yoyo does, take the risk to make us more excited about this fun, silly hobby.

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KiLbUcK, anecdotal evidence from YYN is exactly the kind of “evidence” that means nothing. And then the article you linked to is an op-ed piece, which also doesn’t have facts. If I wanted to just grab published opinions from the internet on revile for a postal service, trust me, there’s a tonne on USPS. With a nation with a population more than 10 times our own, there are probably roughly 10 times as many whiny op-ed pieces. Or maybe a bit less than that because certain American demographics are loathe to criticize anything about their own country.

This isn’t a “whose postal system is better” discussion. USPS is better than ours, in my opinion as well as many surveys. Japan post has always been great, and I’m more confident in theirs than either USPS or Canada Post.

The point you’re missing is that you’re claiming that it is a “given” that we have a terrible postal system. And we don’t. It works just fine for millions of people every year. It can and DOES get packages to and from the States even without tracking. Add tracking and you have nothing to worry about.

I can tell you’ve never actually done it, though. The “mountain” of paperwork you referred to is three questions:

“List the items in the box”
“Declare a value for the contents”
“Are the contents a gift?”

This isn’t rocket surgery. Yet, people get intimidated because it is three quesions more than they’re accustomed to answer when shipping domestically. It’s not a giant step out of a comfort zone, but it’s not “nothing”. If you can’t dip your toes outside of your comfort zone in order to answer a tiny 1-minute questionnaire (not a mountain of paperwork), I suspect your problem isn’t actually the postal system but a mild fear of the unknown.

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^^^ Try and candy coat it any way you like Greg…CPS sucks! ;D

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Best part of the post is the term “Rocket Surgery”… soooooo stealing that phrase.

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Yeah…some rocket surgery might make it more up to speed :wink:

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