What is your opinion on beginners (just starting out) who want/buy high end, expensive throws. Like CLYW and stuff. I have a friend like this, and I’m not sure how I feel about it since he just got started and he’s a kid so he could get out of it easily and become uninterested.
Go.
For those in a hurry, skip to the end. Sorry if I wasted your time!
Onto the rest who like the LONG answer:
I am a person who started throwing later in life. I started at 39, I’m 40 now, been doing this around 15 months now. Now that I have kids into it too, I have to really look at things. But, it’s the same way.
I can also somewhat relate to this because I see kids at this yoyo meet I go to who can barely throw and have a $100+ YYF and I’m looking at this thinking “Uh, why would you spend so darn much on a kid at this level in the game”!
First, there’s the differences of opinion of “responsive vs. unresponsive play”. I feel learning responsive play is better.
Second, there’s the issue of price. My thoughts are with a new person, keep price LOW to start. You can do a lot with a Duncan Butterfly, Imperial, ProZ and a few others, including a Yomega Brain and Duncan Reflex. Duncan makes a lot of OTHER inexpensive yoyos in the under $15 range that are beginner oriented.
Yoyo’s like the Fast201 I’m kind of mixed about, but I will probably get one and a Velocity mostly to support some people I got started in this and so I can relate to exactly what I set them up with. At the under $20, they are affordable and adaptable.
The ONE really forces the game to step up, providing a solid playing yoyo with a 2-bearing option for a super low price of $10-13 depending where you get it.
My thoughts are to start off: keep it under $20 for the yoyo. Strings are another issue. Reduce your initial investment. Most people will bail out here. This is Stage 1
Now onto Stage 2. I think the next step up is NOT a CLYW. I think there’s a LOT of steps up. This next step is very critical. It’s not the making a BAD choice here will sink the interest, it’s just this is a logical step. Typically, this will be an affordable(under $50) yoyo, most likely unresponsive. The reason why this part is very important is that things will either stop here or a real interest is shown.
If they are serious, then why not enter Stage 3, which can be “the sky is the limit”. But I would recommend more moderately priced stuff.
Let’s look at 2 of my kids:
First, the eldest girl. Showing no interest t first, she had to PROVE her interest by using my BRAIN, then getting a ONE which she earned due to throwing the BRAIN properly and she worked darn hard on that Then a LegacyII, a ProZ since I was in a buying mood, a Shinwoo LOOP, and a Duncan Pulse and YYJ Chase at BAC. She’s abandoned it. She had already actually lost interest before BAC. For now, I’ll let her keep the stuff, she may get interested later. I gotta get her to a contest when she can see a girl throwing down good. She missed Ann Connolly at CalStates due to timing. She was with my at BAC but Ann opted to not compete. At the YoLexTravaganza, she didn’t go, and she missed seeing Tessa Piccillo. Hey, only so much I can do. I recently got a 4-pack of Butterfly XT’s, but even that wouldn’t get her to throw. I am just angry at when she lost interest, but hey, silly me spoiling my kids. Hey, she does good in school and that’s more priority anyways. She expressed an interest in a DM2, but there’s no way I’m getting her a DM2 if she’s just not even making an effort. She wants a diabolo too, but she won’t make an effort on mine so there’s no way she’s getting that either. Sorry, I gotta draw the line. She even got a kendama, which broke and she doesn’t care. She lost interest because it was the wrong color. Sorry, it’s what they had! However, the break was due to a manufacturing defect best I can tell.
Let’s look at my boy.
Started with a BRAIN, went to a ONE, got a Protostar. Yes, he can bind at 5.5 years old. He has other stuff too, including a Magic T6, 2 ProZ’s, a Butterfly XT, Pulse, Metal Drifter and Freakhand both set up for 5A and a Fiesta XX. And yes, he can throw, catch and bind back that Fiesta XX. He’s into this, and we’re looking at getting him a stacked yoyo, either a Photon Spirit since he won’t leave mine alone or a T9 or T10 or maybe an N9. He is constantly grabbing my Albatross. He got a DM2 at YoLexTravaganza. The Fiesta XX and Pulse he got at BAC. He’s been doing this as long as I have. He also routinely goes through my cases throwing my expensive yoyos and I don’t even pay any attention. He knows how to take care of stuff. He does get a lot of knots though! He wanted a Flying Panda, so I got one for him. He wants a diabolo, but that’s a “Maybe” item. If he wants it, he’ll work on mine and earn it. He does have a kendama and he’s liking that.
Now let’s look at another girl, of course, being 3.5, you can’t expect much. She had this FAO Schwartz wood pegged yoyo for $4 so she wouldn’t be excluded, but it quickly became a “weapon to force others into submission” and was taken away. She later got a Reflex, which she’s lost, but that may be too much for weak little girl arms. She now also has a ProZ but that’s it for now. She’s gotta show me something if she wants to move forward. She’s 3, I don’t expect much now. She can at least get the diabolo spilling.
The last kid is a year, and is fine with the above mentioned yoyo. It satisifed the need to not be left out.
My wife has her own pink DM2. She’s trying! It’s my wife, I’ll spend what I want! She’s had it a little over a month now. Yes, she will pick it up and throw it on her own.
Now onto me personally. Without going into my back-story excessively:
I got a yoyo at 7 in 1978, it was the hot toy. It didn’t go well, I could never throw it properly. A big failure but I never lost interest. This is something I always wanted to do. But even for myself when I decided “you know, I want to give this a serious shot”, I bought a Duncan Reflex and an Imperial. That went well. If I had failed here, my next step was a Butterfly and if that failed, I was done, but since the Reflex and Imperial were working out, it was time to move up. My next throw was a DM2, joined here and most of you know the rest.
To the meets again:
If the kid can throw and bind, then hey, whatever. I can’t control other people spending money on their kids. But an under 8 year old dinging the crap out of a $100+ throw makes me sick, especially when they can’t even throw it properly, I don’t get it. But, if the kid has passed stage 1, stage 2 and then is onto stage 3, then why not. I mean, seriously, a good throw can be very helpful.
For myself, I understand the value of a well made premium yoyo. I prefer to throw my Code 2 with disc side effects, or other stuff in and above that price range, but I still try the tricks on cheap stuff too. My DM2 is still my go-to and I have to “pass” a trick on my DM2 to be considered “learned”.
Then again, I’m spending my own hard earned money on this stuff. It’s different when you buy for yourself. On my son, I’m not about to buy him a $100 throw yet, but there are plenty of reasonably priced metals that he can benefit from and enjoy, and I watch what he throws of mine and see what he likes. There’s lots of amazing affordable yoyos.
There’s also a lot of “buy the best, which is the most expensive, it will be what you need”, mentality that goes around. This doesn’t always work great for the yoyo. This is complicated with a lot of bad information given to many people, along with general ignorance. I mean, the yoyo goes up, you tug it back, and you can do tricks. I remember being over-loaded with responsive play vs. unresponsive play, ball bearings, response pads, so many brands, so many models, so many styles… I literally overloaded and shut down for a few days. In my day, we had the Duncan Imperial and the good players had a Duncan Butterfly. That’s the way it was and we liked it! My how things have changed.
My recommendations always take “price of failure” factored in. If it doesn’t work out, one should limit the loss. I’m not trying to equate “love” to “dollars spent”. I love my kids. But, am I less of a parent when I buy my kid a Magic T6 for like $15and I properly cut his string and he loves the heck out of that, when compared to the parent buying their kid a CLYW with a full length string being bashed into the ground on every throw and the kid can’t bind it back? This stuff can get expensive fast.
Sorry, been up late, tough days, didn’t get my other creative writing in today. I took it out here.
In short or for those impatient readers who skilled to the end:
I think it’s irresponsible. Start them off with something reasonably priced and evaluate the situation. Watch them grow and progress, upgrade them to something better. If they are still progressing, then do whatever you want from there at that point. Otherwise, limit spending and cut the losses.
Studio42 said it! I hate to see a great high end yoyo not used by the player the maker had in mind. I have one of these friends and I need to see what it will take to get that poor abused Super G out of his hands!
I wouldn’t doubt that I’m very, very seriously in the running for the member who is the worst player compared to how much I have invested in throws. Not that I’m terrible, I just have WAAY more in high end and rare throws than anyone should, and certainly way more than a player of my calibre needs.
…so, I don’t see anything wrong with it. In the end, they’re for fun. If someone wants to collect CLYW’s but they’re not that great a player, so what? Part of the fun of this hobby is trying out throws and finding ones you really love. You can be a terrible player and still get into that. I certainly don’t think it hurts you in any way.
While I think beginners should start smaller, I don’t see any problem with beginners with high end throws provided they look after them. Do they need them? Probably not. Then again, even more experienced throwers don’t actually need CLYWs to pull off all the tricks. If it makes them happy and they’re at least trying to use them the way they’re meant to be used, I say have at it.
Not sure how to respond. I got my 13 yo cousin started with a dv888 because he felt comfortable using it. It fit well in hus hand, he liked it, and he actually is still using it to this day. I’m glad I started him lightly higher, but then again, I also stuck with him to teach him how to throw and bind well. So I dunno.
People value things differently. I wouldn’t advise someone to get a nice metal to learn with but they may have the talent, the friends to help, and the determination as well as the money. Some people simply collect, and can’t even throw a sleeper, they find value in something I don’t understand but that doesn’t change the fact it has value for them.
I guess in short: It’s not my money, it’s not my business what they purchase or what they do. I hope everyone enjoys what they have as much or more, as I enjoy what I have. I try to just be happy for people when they are fortunate enough to acquire things that bring them joy, for whatever reasons.
The way I see it, if a beginner wants to buy something then I say go for it. The cool thing about this sport is there are yoyo’s for everyone’s taste. Let them decide what to do with their money.
True.
If Mommy and Daddy want to see their little darling precious bang the crap out of a $100+ throw because they refuse to show them how to use it… not my problem. Not my money either.
I guess when you see a parent drop $120 on a throw for a kid who has never seen a yoyo before, then you watch the kid pound it until the axle breaks over the course of an 2 hour yoyo meet… well, those parents must be beaming with pride. Then when said kid strolls over to your case and wants to throw your new Skywalker, well, that’s when I refuse!
And yes, I’m serious. I saw this happen. The kid comes over after his brand new SuperStar falls apart( I watched him open the box), and wants to try my stuff. I had to say “no”. His father got up in my face about that and I simply told him(while my kid is throwing and binding his Protostar next to me) that I just watched him destroy a new yoyo and I do not want him to destroy my stuff. The parent was saying how good his kid was, and I said that I was watching him destroy that new yoyo that nobody even bothered to cut the string for and he can’t even do a basic throw. He called his kid over and said “show him what you can do” and the kid is crying because his yoyo is broken. That’s when I found out the axle was broken, I thought it merely came unscrewed. I handed the kid my short-stringed Butterfly and said “show me” and the kid did a “baseball” kind of throw. I spent 10 minutes trying to get that kid to throw properly but he had his mind made up of HOW to throw. At this point, the “proud father” saw the extent of the issue here and calmed down. Now, we had a real conversation and I took the father through my case and showed him some inexpensive stuff that would be ideal for starting, which I recommended a ONE and some string. I’m not sure if he bought it. I also told him he could come here(YYE) and order a replacement axle for the busted SuperStar and a YYF multi-tool to remove the bearing.
Granted, this was a worse case scenario, but for a kid who has has never thrown before:
Do you really waste $100+ or do you stay under $20? If the kid shows interest, then definitely upgrade! However, real interest is proven over time, not a single day or a couple of hours.
As I showed, my girl lost interest after a few months, despite showing initial interest and EARNING an upgrade.
My boy finally got it in his head to learn it, by his own motivation, including asking me for help, and he is where he is.
Can you imagine:
“Here son, here’s a yoyo(presents child with a Chief).”
Bang, bang, bang, cling, clang, clong, ding, gash, gar, gnarl, scrape, ping… doink… “Dad, I don’t like this yoyo, it’s broken”.
my nieghbor started yoyoing when he saw my stuff and he bought himself a spyy radian. na deventualy he got out of it cuz he wasent learning anything new. so he sold me the yoyo for 40 bucks. hes back into it now. but if all els fails. u can get a good yoyo for a cheaper price
Wow, thank you for all the great replies, especially Studio42, thanks.
Here’s the exact situation- this is my brothers friend who went through the local school yoyo boom and learned all the responsive yoyo tricks and even some unresponsive, but got out of it eventually (as most do). I was doing some tricks, so obviously he was interested. I lent him my ProtoStar to try out some tricks, and me and my brother started teaching him tricks. Here’s what he can basically do with the ProtoStar- he only knows one bind, can kind of do a double or nothing, and the matrix. He told us that he wanted to get better, so I suggested he either get a ProtoStar, or Dv888. And I had both on hand so I let him try it. And he tells us he’ll probably get one of the two. I stupidly let him use my wooly marmot, and now he’s all about getting the expensive CLYW’s and I hate to say it, but he’ll most likely get out of it. I’m just not sure how I fell about a kid who can barely throw getting an expensive yoyo.
I think it’s more of the fact that you just got into yoyoing. If you’re bad but you really enjoy it and you know you’re going to stick with it, then there’s no problem buying high end throws. If you just started, you should definantly start out with something cheaper. I’m also pretty bad, but I have a few $100+ yoyos. But my parents don’t buy them for me and I know how to use them properly.
I hate that this is true. But it’s like that in everything. One of my previous friends, had just gotten into hockey a year earlier, and his parents went and bought him a pair of $350 skates and a $100 stick. He then went and used his pocketknife on the outside of the stick to make it look beat up so he could get the $300 one he wanted.
OK, here’s the issue:
First, I’m glad that kid can do unresponsive play, even if it isn’t that much. I’m glad he’s shown a real interest, especially since he “walked away” and now wants in.
Second, I agree with your suggestions. They are good priced and logical “stage 2” and beyond throws.
Now here’s the problem: You loaned him a SMOOTH high end yoyo. It’s hard to go back! Even noobs can figure this out.
What I would recommend is you push what you said to the person who is going to fund this for him. He walked away once, the odds are good he may walk away again. At the same time, I think the fact that he walked away and came back actually speaks loads in favor of him sticking with this.
I think that he should get something at a dv888 price level or less is more than generous. I think a Protostar would be ideal. a Legacy II or Chaser would maybe be a bit wiser, gives you the best of both worlds in a good package. I think the Chaser might be too heavy. Other good choices include PGM(stacked and stackless), DieNasty, Starbrite, PSG and Asteroid. I feel your suggestions are logical and spot on. There’s a few more models you can suggest if you wanted. The rest is beyond question, it’s spot on!
I’m thinking the same as you. If this doesn’t work out, best to be down a lower priced yet awesome yoyo, than be out $100 or more on a more awesome throw. If the drive and desire is there, it will be proven and then the yoyo earned.
At my meets, I have no issue with a kid who CAN throw trying something like my One Drops, CLYW’s and other $100+ stuff. I got the money, I got the throws. Let them try my expensive stuff. They might decide “I do like” or “I don’t like” and they did it for free, and ended up saving themselves money.
Going back to what I said: my 5.5 year old son likes my Albatross. Even a little kid can tell quality! And he’s been at this nearly a year now. He’s probably going to stick with it as long as I do and I intend to stick with it. But even so, at that age, I ain’t spending that kind of money on my OWN kid on a single yoyo!
Who cares? I bought an 888x on a whim last year and learned on that, i’d had a few Yomegas 15 years ago but never progressed past rock the baby so i don’t count those. Personally i see no reason not to learn on a nice throw assuming someone shows how to cut string, nothing worse than watching a kid try and learn with a head-height string. Learning on a responsive isn’t much use, binding doesn’t take more than an hour or two to master. No one’s ever taken up a hobby and not wanted the best gear available, why should yoyoing be any different?
I think it’s a bit entertaining how painful people find it when they see some kid beating up his yoyo. I wonder if it does something to us physically besides raise the blood pressure and bring a tear to the eye :’( .
Wrongwrongwrongwrongwrong. If you don’t know how to play on a responsive yoyo, your tricks will look like crap, you will have no understanding of the way a yoyo actually works if the first thing you pick up is an unresponsive yoyo. Nobody should start playing unresponsive, nobody. This is one of the biggest problems I see within the community, very few people willing to put work in to get past the point of bashing their knuckles every two minutes, so they go out and buy a large bearing, aluminum, unresponsive yoyo and proceed to have zero skills.
Binding is FAR from the only difference in play between responsive and unresponsive.
That “thank you” was definitely a mistake, by the way.
I went from my throwmonkey to a wooly marmot and I couldn’t even bind. All I had before that was a proyo.