How to stop a bad trade?


#1

how do u know if the person that is selling or buying the yoyo is truthful? What if he is scamming you? Is it a just a bet? OR do u just report them to YYE? What do u do? And if there isnt any way to tell then why dont u just set up a forum or topic saying which people are scammers? Just wondering cuz some of the deals seem pretty good on the b/s/t and i want to buy one but im afraid of a scam.


(J. Lev) #2

You seem to be somewhat nervous about starting to trade, which is normal. If I were you, I’d trade with people I trust, or people who have high feedback ratings at first.

They will likely ask you to ship first if you’re trading, so that they can make sure they can trust you. A trusted trader who asks you t do that is not trying t scam you.

And never ever make a thread saying someone is a scammer if you’re not positive or if housing have some sort of credible evidence. That can be really bad for both of your reputations.

Here’s a great post by Jayyo if you want more information. http://yoyoexpert.com/forums/index.php/topic,5066.0.html


#3

First, well all have to start somewhere. Don’t want to BST? Go new. Problem resolved.

But, yeah, how do you trust someone? I did a trade recently. I was a 0-rated(no trades) and he was brand new(also no trades). I’m older, he’s younger. He’s sending, I’m paying using a YYE gift certificate so he can use that to make a purchase. The bottom line was neither was out to rip off the other in this case. He sent using a tracking number, and so I completed a larger YYE order, with the gift cert for the agreed upon amount when he provided the tracking number. He got his code before I got the yoyos, but I go the tracking code to prove they were on the way. 2 days later: I got yoyos. He still has and can use the certificate any way he wants to. There was an issue as a wrong model was sent(he confused a tres leches with the half and half he sent). Am I angry? No. Tiny bit annoyed, but I got a delrin throw in fantastic shape that is perfect for what I need it for, and for my own usage. Can he keep the difference? Sure, I’m fine with that. MY decision!

But, if at any point in time you don’t feel comfortable, STOP. Say so, say you are ending this and cut off communication regarding a deal. Sometimes you can score fantastic deals, sometimes not. That’s how it goes. There are scammers, so read profiles and trade reviews and make your own decision. But DO NOT call someone a scammer without SOLID proof. If you’re right, you win, but if you’re wrong, man, that loss is gonna be a killer(so to speak). DO NOT get forced into a deal.

A seller offered to sell me something he wasn’t really willing to part with because I lost out on a sale. My fault, my problem, not his. Anyhow, he did offer fair pricing on the items, but I also said that he didn’t need to sell me those since those were some favorites of his. It seems that caused the conversation to dry up regarding that sale. Would I buy from him in the future? Based on how he handled it, you bet I would if the opportunity and pricing was right.

I had another recent deal where the guy went ahead and cleaned the bearing and was testing everything to ensure a flawless transaction on a mint item and the poor guy nicked the throw on a table due to a bad bind or something. His voicemail, pure customer oriented customer service. I wasn’t going to call him back right away, but with the time differences, and the urgency, we came to a quick arrangement. Definitely the type of guy to deal with. You can tell by how people handle themselves how they do as traders. He also frequently does stuff on BST. He’s definitely the type I’d come back to.

One guy, however, gave me nothing but attitude when I requested an asking price for an item he was selling. Told me the world didn’t revolve around me. All I wanted was an asking price to see if we were “on the same field” for this transaction. I told him I was no longer interested and severed communication. Odd how nothing of his was moving. He added asking prices and his sales started to move a short time later. Would I deal with him in the future? Sadly, no. I don’t care what his deal is, I’m not interested in dealing with an attitude problem. I’m sure he’s straight forward, but I work a certain way.

Another seller, needed money, I was kind of flip flopping a bit. I made a request for 2, sorta chose one, but then figured “sure get both” and took a middle offer from him that actually cost me $10 above his lowest asking price.

Did a deal with Jayyo. The guy held the item for me pending my ability to pay. I accepted his asking price and I made payment on the day I said I would. I haven’t received the item yet, but it’s not urgent. Jayyo has a proven track record. I am only mentioning Jayyo by name because there was nothing negative in the transaction. Just shows people can be willing to work with you.

Keep in mind, paypal can offer buyer protection services. If you’re worried, then use a tracking number and insurance.

Keep in mind some people will sell cheap because they don’t care or don’t know. Get a description and photos. Make your own decision and don’t fall to high pressure tactics. If in doubt, BAIL.


#4

Like J. Lev said, since you have no feedback, I would trade with someone everyone knows, like jayyo, or someone with good feedback, like say… 25+. Also, this is probably not the best way to tell, but if the talk like “Hai, i trade dis miB phneomzim for your MIb dark majic”, I would not deal with them, unless they ship first.


#5

read the messages that the guy posts on forums, you’ll figure out how trust-able he is


(Q) #6

I wouldn’t deal with them if they did ship first.


#7

Well, we do have this:
Traders Feedback (Moderators: mrcnja, mgodinez, jhb8426)
http://yoyoexpert.com/forums/index.php/board,19.0.html

Also each user profile has a feedback section that lists a users trade rep.

Of course this all depends on people rating a trade in the first place. Some people only see fit to rate bad trades. Good trades should be rated as well. A good trader deserves to have his trade rep noted. Then again I’ve seen cases of good traders gone bad too. In the end it’s all a crap shoot in the end, but a good trade rep does put the odds generally in your favor. That said, I’ve been lucky and have never had a trade go bad in all the time I’ve been doing them.


#8

That’s a good start, but unfortunately, some people really love to play the scam/con game and will take the extra steps to rip off someone. Some people are just that way.

Chances are, if someone has been around a while, they’ll be around a while longer. If someone posts a lot, they’ll most likely continue to post a lot. Seeing as how they “play here” they are not going to want to mess up a place for themselves that they enjoy coming to. Weighing that against their trade reputation, if it exists yet, is about all you can do. If they post a lot, seem friendly and helpful but have zero trade reputation, that’s probably a good sign things will go down nicely. Even so, with a new trader, I advise proceed with caution, but trust your guy instinct.


#9

Hmmmmm. You seem to know alot Studio. Coincidence? I THINK NOT! :wink:


#10

I work in professional audio/entertainment, and the theme is “Screw or be screwed”, unfortunately. I choose to NOT screw others, but I myself have been screwed. You order a used bit of gear, and they’ll send an envelop with a tracking number, and if you’re lucky a note inside saying “you just got screwed!”. Or they’ll send empty boxes full of packing material and junk. Or they’ll show the gear as working, but ship broken gear. Recently, on Ebay, I bought a system processor, and unfortunately, the phantom power for the measurement mic was shot. That’s going to cost me $155 to fix with shipping. I figure while I’m at it, replace the LCD screen too as it’s shot. But, the unit is 9 years old, and that problem happens often, so I’m not mad. Annoyed? Yes, but not mad. It was expected. In the meantime, a $20 phantom power supply module resolve the issue. Screw job? No but it seems like it.

I also have to work in an environment where people have LOTS of opportunity to steal from me. Laying lots of gear out, it’s not always possible to secure everything. IN many cases, the gear is simply too high profile, big, heavy and/or cumbersome to steal, but in other cases, it’s not. I had a band steal $10K worth of gear, stuff that would fit in a backpack and leave TONS of space. Wireless body packs, mics for them, and they picked and choose their way through my other mic boxes and took what they pleased. If I had 2, they took 1, as if I wouldn’t notice. If I had 4, they took 2, again as if I wouldn’t notice. Another show, this band took a mic, and a mic stand, mic and clip. Then denied it and I had it on video recorded. Still denied it. $200 lost is a big hit to a small company such as mine that operates on a low profit margin in order to provide cost effective service to clients.

Won an auction and I mailed payment a day late, and since the mail can be slow, took the opportunity to bombast me on Ebay over it since I didn’t pay. Turns out he gave an invalid address and I received the check “recipient unknown” a couple of weeks later. Turned out he did this to a few other people too.

Trading is high risk. You have to assume you’re sending, so they’re sending. Who sends first? How do you coordinate it? Who goes first? Is there a trigger? It’s a double blind trust system with no protections. In a buy, there are methods where the buyer can obtain protection against a seller. Once a BUY or a money transaction is involved, there may be things in place to offer buyer protection.

Even so, scams can happen. I can’t think of all the ways, but it can. No matter what, if someone wants to scam, they will and there’s not much you can do about it until the end. The good thing is that there is some “social responsibility” taken here, where if you scam, then your peers are gonna bear down on you like a ton of bricks. At least that’s how they handle it here.

In the pro audio world, you’re on your own. The attitude is “Better him/them than me”. Gotta watch your own back, because someone is gunning for you ALWAYS.

So, go with your gut feeling. First sign things are bad, bail. I work hard to make sure who I am trading with feels comfortable with me, but I come across, or at least hope to, as someone who is honest and is going to uphold my end of the agreement. Honestly in my case, buying is the best way to go. Getting to the post office is a pain even though there’s an office nearby. That local office is always staffed by idiots, but that’s OK, their clients are idiots too. They have vending machines for postage, that every time I go there, they are completely sold out. Then I gotta wait in line an hour to get a stamp as every person in front of me has to choose the “least convenient method of whatever it is they are trying to do” and then pay for it in coins. And then, my wife will hose the schedule so I can’t use the car and nobody to watch the kids. So, I don’t feel I can send out stuff in a timely manner to uphold my end of a trade. But right now, I want to buy, so it makes things easy.

What we need is a contract. Simple, easy. I’m actually working on one based on how I handled a recent BST transaction. Nothing machine. I’ll post it up in a day or two. It’s not exactly “legally binding”, but it shows an agreement in the proper spirit and would have legal merit.


#11

Wow. After reading your novel I realized how cruel some people are. Stealing 10k worth of equitment? That’s harsh. I knew your business was tough, but now it sounds mean.


#12

I just got a yoyo I paid for on july 6th today… no axle…but I did get my yoyo…


#13

My business IS mean. It’s not an easy place to be. That’s part of the reason I stopped touring. I am choosing to “do it my way”, which still results in me getting screwed, but at least I’m “the boss” and it’s my gear, so hey, the gear is coming with me and I have a key to the truck, so I’m riding home!

I won’t share lots of other stories. But, let’s say some “accidents” aren’t “accidents” and therefore you can see there are plenty of ways to “get ahead” in this business if you’re willing to “do the work”. People DIE in this business. What’s good is more are dying of natural causes than “industrial accidents” these days.

I’ll just do things my way. I’m happier. Healthier.

But back to trades:
You honestly never truly know. Trust your gut. If the both parties are willing to have good lines of communication, then that’s a plus. My number also does TXT, but I prefer to save TXT stuff for my clients and important stuff(such as an active deal, but typically concert work). You call or text, you’ll get a response if necessary. You email, I’ll email you back. For the buy I did that paid with a YYE certificate, we had some miscommunications, such as he claimed he sent the tracking code, but I honestly did not get it. He sent it a bit later again after I cleared that up. Then, to put his mind at ease, after I completed the YYE order with his certificate in it made out to him directly, I emailed him proof of my order with proof of his name and email on the certificate. Then, I had to bug the hard working YYE staff to help move that certificate along to him to help him feel comfortable that he was being taken care of properly.

Let me single out a couple of sellers recently:
ratfacedudeguy is the guy who sold me the TFL Delorean as mint. Doing the extra effort to clean the bearings, he tested it and dinged it. Uh oh! He went to make it right, proactively. You have to like a guy like that who understands world class customer service.
Jayyo, who is taking a lot of crap recently, and I gotta say I find some of what he is doing annoying too, is actually a nice guy, he’s just acting his age. But, our transaction went without incident. He held the item for me pending my ability to pay for it, and then promptly shipped it out. Again, professional. Those are two I can trust. I wouldn’t mind meeting either of them in person.
Sabata sold me two throws in exactly as described condition. We had a little wheeling dealing going on, but in the end, since he needs money for some medical stuff, I didn’t take his LOWEST offer and instead went a little higher. I see this as “show some love for our fellow throwers” sort of thing. What’s $10, right? Big deal. He needs it more than I do. HE could do $140 or $150 for the pair. No, you’ll take the $150 from me rather than the $140.

But, I’m new, no cred, no reputation(until now) in the BST arena. I have to prove myself. Those who are good sellers and traders work hard to KEEP that reputation. Read their ratings.

And as always, trust your gut. Something doesn’t feel right, just walk away. It’s not worth it. Money isn’t so easy these days.


#14

Just relaying recent experiences. Names will not be mentioned, so as to protect the sellers, who DO NOT need to be thought of different because of this.

1: I like it when people start off with the asking price. I have a rather open-ended LF-type ad on the BST, and people are responding to it. I’ve asked for asking prices when making an offer. Some do, some don’t. For those who don’t, I’ve found asking them for prices can sometimes meet with some initial resistance, but most come through when they realize I won’t deal with them seriously without them providing an asking price. Sometimes I take asking prices, if I think they are reasonable.

2: I’ve had two deals I didn’t feel comfortable with due to the asking price, and as a result, I felt my counter-offer would be too low. I have politely said I am not interested due to the price, and so far have had good results.

3: Been offered many duplicates. If I’m not interested, I say so.

4: Been offered some bundles that included stuff I didn’t want for a variety of reasons. The funny part is I want the item I am after, and not the other item(s) in the bundle, but they won’t sell me the item I am interested in because “it’s not worth it”. Well, it is worth it, but hey, I can’t force them to sell it.

5: When working two deals for the same item, DO NOT make the sellers go into a reverse bidding war. I had a deal going on a used BVM, which was less ugly than a NEW/MIND BVM(shark vs. zombie? Yuck!). The used has scratches and a lower price, which made sense. The seller for the other one had a decent price, but it was about money on this deal. I closed the used deal, and informed the seller of the other one that I had closed a deal on the other BVM.

As always, be polite, clear and firm. If that doesn’t work, simply stop responding to persistent sellers/traders who won’t take “no” for an answer. But, at the same time, don’t accept a deal/trade/whatever and then back out of it. That is NOT cool.