Just give or volunteer to the charities you support. Why is a consumer purchase necessary? I support my local food bank and VA center without need of any one’s back patting or consumer purchase no matter how appealing they try to make it sound. It’s an honest need that I’m happy to help with. When a company tells you that you need to buy their product to support a charity, they are liars. You don’t need to buy something for yourself before you help those in need. In fact, that poisons any help you think you are giving by claiming you have to be rewarded with something you want 1st. Left hand knowing what the right hand is doing stuff. Those in need aren’t waiting for you to fulfill some desire complex to be in need of help. They need help whether you make a purchase or not. It’s pretty simple really. #ti-vayder
Good documentaries on subject matter. Put here so as not to add to the stupid long post I made:
“The Century of Self”
“The Corporation”
I would agree with most of this, but correct me if I’m wrong here @codinghorror, I believe the purpose of the charity is because
Jeff wants to bring back an updated legendary yoyo in a decent quantity making it easier for people to obtain.
Jeff does not want or need any profit from this.
Why not use the profit for something good?
Matthew 6:1-4
Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.
“Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
That being said, maybe it would have been better to not share that the profits were to be donated until after the profits were made?
Even still, this whole project feels cursed because disclosing the bit about this being a charity job seemed kind of important and necessary… you know… because of the history.
The last thing Jeff [again correct me if I’m wrong @codinghorror] wanted was to make it seem like he was deliberately copying someone else’s legendary design for profit…
It’s a giant mess and I’m getting pretty sick of the crusades.
In my opinion companies that promote this are making themselves look good at your expense. Pro sports teams are a major offender in this regard with their charity promotions offering a small percentage of proceeds to a charity, or better yet offering to be the middle man in collecting funds, maybe with a small matching donation. In any event they’re encouraging you to give but taking the credit for it.
Bro you’re looking way too into it. I can see how in certain instances this can be a little deceptive, especially if only a small portion is being donated and they are using the charity card to earn greater profit at others expense like jhb said but not in this case, all profit is going towards a charity, not just a portion.
It’s purely for a good cause and just an extra incentive. Those who may not have donated anything otherwise may be more likely to do so if they are getting something in return. Those who may not buy the yoyo/product may be more likely to buy it because a portion is going towards a charity. It’s beneficial for both sides.
Since when did anyone say you need to buy a ti vader to support a charity anyway. The fact that the funds are going towards a charity is just a pro imo.
Makes the project look better, more people are likely to buy it, additional funds are going towards a charity that wouldn’t have otherwise. I don’t see a problem here.
Maybe I wanted to get a ti Vayder either way. And it just so happens that if I do a portion is going towards charity. I don’t think anyone will be buying one simply to feel like they are helping a cause.
It makes sense as further “atonement” for the original charity drive gone wrong, doesn’t it?
It makes abundantly clear and explicit that we do not have any commercial goal whatsoever for the project.
Furthermore, I don’t need the money. I have plenty of money. I just wanted a cool thing to exist. I would very much like to make back what I put in though!
You want brutal honesty? I’ll give you brutal honesty. If we sold 500 units at cost, it would break the industry IMO. And that’s not my goal.
You got it backwards. You don’t have to buy the yoyo to make the donation. If (and it is IF, not WHEN) you buy the yoyo, the donation just happens as a nice side benefit. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy a yoyo and @codinghorror could just as well be keeping the money but he’s not. You could also encourage people to bypass the yoyo and make the donation themselves to a charity they feel deserves it.
It’s definitely a good thing to volunteer your time to good causes though.
It’s a cheaply priced titanium yoyo that a lot of people will want to buy. The price is important as it’s a deciding factor for most buyers. If Jeff decided to keep the money, everyone would still be benefiting from a a cheaply priced titanium yoyo, but he’s being generous and donating all the profits. I don’t see the down side here, I just don’t
By just stating that you support the charities you do, you make it seem like you’re looking for a pat on the back. You could have easily made your point without grandstanding.
With that said, you are correct that we should do the right thing without expecting reward; the act of giving should be reward enough. Unfortunately, too many people do not take comfort in giving freely… be it from being burned by fraud, or simply not having the means. By providing an incentive, in this case the Vayder, many more people, including those that may never have donated otherwise, will give (and by the looks of the reservation list, they will give a lot!). I don’t think anyone is being tricked in this particular situation; as a matter of fact Jeff has been more than transparent throughout the entire process as to his motives and desired outcome. He is doing it for the love of yoyoing and his love for this community, and that should be praised.
Too few people do the right thing for the right reasons. If this man has discovered a way to share his joy and get many to loosen the purse strings for a good cause, then we should applaud the effort instead of finding fault.
Be happy to expound on my point of view to everyone, just got on so give me time.
To start, maybe it should be titled ‘How Marketing tricked us all, and why I don’t like the most popular recent trend of “cause marketing” even more and why it’s relevant to the current on goings here.’ Share opinions and discuss like the ladies and gentlemen we all are.
I guess I should just post some why’s and make it easier on myself to reply and say, see above.
Once upon a time… skip forward… there was this guy Sigmund Freud… skip ahead… now there’s this nephew of his Edward Bernays… the father of Propaganda, aka, Public Relations, aka, marketing/advertising. Look the guy up and the documentary on him “The Century of Self”.
This fellow used his unks findings on what in the mind controlled human behavior to prey on peoples unconscious fears and desire inherent in us all to sell or promote stuffs to get that chedda.
He also used ole Carl Jung to who interestingly enough broke from Freud, his teacher, hero, and mentor because Freud put himself above Truth. Plus he didn’t agree with the Oedipus complex being universal. Which makes me a Jungian I guess, because I agree, and ain’t never wanted to bump and grind my mom. But Freud liked his nose candy too so maybe he wanted to dance the horizontal with anything that had a pulse? I dunno…
Anyway the fact these techniques were developed to ‘prey’ on the unconscious minds of the public to control their behavior for the benefit of the few shows it was pernicious from the beginning imho. So insert Bill Hicks “all marketing and advertisers should kill themselves, oh, he’s going for the anti-marketing dollar, that’s a big market” bit. LOL.
So now lets take something quite popular. You know those pink ribbons? Did you know the lady who came up the slightly different color pink ribbon herself to promote grass roots change & awareness invented it. What did she tell the people who wanted to use her ribbon to sell product. She said NO, you can’t use my awareness effort to profit off the suffering and death of people in my condition. So she didn’t think it was right to make money off of human suffering. Novel idea huh. So the companies said screw off to her, changed the color slightly so as not to get sued, and went about their merry way.
Tragic part is a lot of the very same products that gave people cancer to begin with wanted these ribbons and now use them to generate massive profits off what their own research shows is cancer causing products. Pernicious no?
Leading causes of breast cancer are milk and cosmetics. So on to our next marketing murder spree… Remember ‘Got Milk?’. Brought the dairy industry back from the brink. Turns out giving cows cocaine like chemicals with extra milk producing hormones made it possible to milk them almost continuously until they died from it 3-5 years later. Sure they had to start giving them antibiotics too because of those multiple pesky puss oozing sores all over their udders from the milking machines. They didn’t care about the puss in your milk, just an infection that could kill the cow before the 3-5 years of straight udder pumping abuse was finished. So marketing saved that industry!
Time for a fun fact: Do you know why your poop tapers on the end? So your b-hole doesn’t slam shut!
Hopefully you can see why I have the opinion I do, even more so on ‘cause marketing’ or ‘charity marketing’. Same as the pink ribbon inventor, I think it’s wrong to capitalize, sell, or promote yourself off the suffering and death of others.
Okay, time to quotes:
[quote=“smileypants707, post:2, topic:300188”]
Edit: it’s vayder#TiVayder
[/quote] Edited!
I read you post. See above. lol. Don’t think he’ll have any problem with the project selling out. He can do it however he wishes of course. I’ve just seen so much of this marketing technique through the holidays blow up that I wanted to discuss it here. Shine your little corner of the world or something like that.
It surely is. Self published book, see above.
Or maybe you haven’t looked into it enough. See above.
Not to me, you can’t change the past.
I know, not saying you did. You get brought into the conversation because of the topic of discussion and its currently relevant.
That’s fine. But it already did exist. You just want more of them slightly tweaked for modern play to exist.
Not sure where I called for ‘brutal honesty’ lol, but full of yourself much? Does Duncan know you could bring down the yoyo industry? And they’re doing nothing about it? You know the watch industry had this problem years ago. Collectors were getting ready to sell off their large stash of watches so the watch industry started paying them millions (iirc) to hold onto their stock as to collapse the new watch market. So of course my next question is, are you being paid by Duncan and other yoyo companies not to produce more so as not to break the industry? That would make #2 and #3 a little dicey don’t ya think? JK, it’s rhetorical.
But I do wonder if you have a vested interest in this charity. Do you do business with them, contractual or otherwise? Are you friends with the owners? Then your giving to your friends not a charity, no? Will you use this ‘project’ as a means to further your business or career in future meetings or endeavors? Any sort of kick backs?
None of this is my business so understand I’m just thinking out loud and not accusing.
I read it all, sorry to say it but see above.
Oh wait, aren’t you the fellow who said you can’t make any money making and selling yoyo’s? So if you can’t make any money doing it, the tiny bit you do make is supposed to be a big deal worth promoting going to chaity? I guess my point is more along the lines of, if you need to have proceeds of a purchase going to charity to buy something for yourself that makes you less of good person to me. Not more of one. Plus I don’t agree Jeff is benefiting the community with a yoyo. I mean, happiness has nothing to do with material possessions right? I mean I like what I like as much as you, but I don’t depend on them for my happiness.
You could say that unless you knew what little I give! lol. Seriously I see your point and did not mean it to be grandstanding, but a description. Like Louis CK, I could sell my car and buy a cheaper one and with the proceeds literally save a human being from starving. But I don’t. So no, no grandstanding.
You would probably like the Einstein quote “If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed”.
I hope I explained above how it’s more marketing and now the hot new cause marketing I find pernicious.
The particular situation of the Ti-Vayder doesnt really apply to this imo. Why? Because it is a one time run that is not meant to “grow” branding or anything. New or small companies could use charitable causes as a way of marketing and growing their brand so that in the future their sales numbers would increase because: one, increased brand awareness, and two, they are nice and charitable folk and I want to support them. But I don’t see this happening with the Ti-Vayder run, as Jeff does not have a yoyo company of which to profit from (afaik).
I had something else written out then I saw that big long thing. I kinda feel like this is just some crusade now. The kind where there’s no intention of having a constructive conversation and sharing of ideas just “this is why my opinion is better and everyone else’s is wrong unless they’re agreeing with me”, but that’s just how I feel, have fun!
Give it a chance! lol. I tried to make it funny and informative and no it’s not a crusade. That words been used a lot I think I’m missing something?
Oh yeah, I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything, just explaining my own thoughts further. I want you to disagree and give less long winded explanations as to why. It’s how I learn and have changed my opinions on things my whole life.
I don’t think this is cause marketing at all. This is Jeff wants to make a rather large exclusive run of yoyos and doesn’t want to keep the profits. That’s it. It really is that simple.
This issue is 100% bigger than the Ti-Vayder project, I agree with you there. However, I think the one point you’re missing from everyone’s responses here is that none of us are talking about this issue as a whole, we are talking about it in isolation of just the Ti-Vayder project. Actually nobody has even disagreed with you that this is an issue on a greater scale, some have even specifically said that this IS an issue with other companies.
Everyone that has seemingly disagreed with you is only disagreeing about your statements for the Ti-Vayder project specifically. So I am just wondering, and I’m sure others are too, how does what you’re saying apply to this project specifically?
Literally no profit is being made, no company is being started, Jeff will have no further related projects after this. Also what makes you POSSIBLY think that Jeff has any ulterior motive for this project such as doing business with the charity, “contractual or otherwise” ? What “business or career” could he possibly be furthering with this? He’s not starting a company, his work and career doesn’t involve making or promoting yoyos. And kickbacks? He’s not making any profit, he already has enough money, and in the past he’s given away hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars worth of yoyos to others for nothing in return. What is the issue here?
“if you need to have proceeds of a purchase going to charity to buy something for yourself that makes you less of good person to me”
I was going to buy the yoyo either way, whether proceeds went to charity or not. Im sure many others are like this as well. I doubt anybody is buying this just because they want to donate to a charity. It just so happens Jeff decided to make that decision. What is the issue here?
Would you have preferred Jeff just kept the profit instead of donating it to charity. Would that be better? What…
You’ve said so much about doing good without expecting anything in return but you can’t fathom that maybe Jeff wanted to do this project out of the goodness of his heart. To get a highly sought after yoyo in the hands of everyone while donating thousands to charity as well, not really expecting anything in return.
It’s actually the definition of ‘cause marketing’. Marketing a product that some or all of the proceeds will go to charity. It’s not my terminology.
See above. Not the long winded above right up there. The topic is the very definition of this project.
I’ve had plenty of companies come to the table promoting projects that have nothing to do with the project they were being hired for. And plenty of them brought up charitable, not for profit, projects to sell us on the idea of how great their company was. It’s a tactic I’ve seen used plenty. I thought he was a programmer in a programming company. All sorts of various business uses programmers ya know. If he’s not, my bad. I read to much into the name.
Me too. I could care less about any profit from my purchase going to charity. Live how you see fit, I do and I know why. I really am not trying to get agreement or rally against a yoyo. I’m just saying any marketing of this nature has been disavowed by its very creator (pink ribbon).
Jeff could keep the money or not. Makes no difference to me. $10k is one tiny pack of c notes so I have no illusions compared to huge corporations, but small or large scale, its the same thing. It’s like your trying to say the guy selling dime bags isn’t the same as the one selling pounds. Maybe I’m just not understanding you?
Actually I haven’t said do good and don’t expect anything. I wouldn’t promote that purposely. If I did it was by mistake or misunderstanding because I know if you want to reach higher you must loose the will to do good and the will to cause harm. The road to hell paved with good intentions theory.
I can fathom that. It’s just I’m not the type to think a yoyo, even highly sought after, is going to make any difference to anyone being happy or not so I choose to discuss things that can.
Well, like I said that just how I FELT how it reads upon first glance, which is why unless I’m certain I lead with “this is how I feel” as I can’t say I actually know this to be true with 100% certainty.
So with that being said, I feel like in the bigger picture outside of yoyoing this is kind of old NEWS? At least to me, and I feel like a lot of people are aware of these tactics by now and either don’t pay it any attention cause they were always going to purchase the thing anyway, or welcome the justification for, once again something they were probably already going to buy anyway.
And yeah most larger corporate companies use things like this as a PR stunt, or tax write off, but by now a lot charity organizations are aware of this themselves and they use this to their advantage to negotiate a mutual agreement. The company gets to look good and take credit, the organization gets some donation they might not have otherwise gotten and also bring awareness to an audience that otherwise probably wasn’t on their radar to begin with, as they go about their busy daily lives. So it’s not as simple as it being all bad, we live in a time with a lot of grey area haha.
And in no way am I even including the Vayder project I’m this discussion as I don’t doubt the sincerity behind that project, cheers!
Yeah, it’s at least a century old news. Problem is it very deeply effects the entire world. No need to worry about it. Especially if your young. Just live life fully and dangerously and have patience. When you get old like me you’ll wonder sometimes why things in your life and the world are the way they are. Then when you start to look you’re amazed at all the propaganda that has had such a devastating outcome. No need to realize until its time, if ever. Most won’t.
I feel you’re missing my point of these companies doing these charity marketing campaigns on the back of human death and suffering. That’s what they bank on. The sick and dying. Sure it’s easier to ignore it or not even realize it. But the companies are making billions and literally giving $25,000.00 to a charity. That’s way more profit than help and that’s not even bringing up very little charity money actually going to those in need. lol.
You keep talking about other events and companies though? Nobody else is talking about other events? Nobody is really disagreeing with you about these other events and companies?
Everyone else is just talking about how what you’re saying makes the profit from the tivayder project going to charity a bad thing. How is that a bad thing? You didn’t exactly answer my question. Would you have felt better if there was no donations that were involved in this project? If so, why? You said people should donate money without expecting anything in return. Well. Why can’t you just think of it as him making profit, but giving all of it away to charity, and expecting nothing in return? What is the difference? I don’t understand why you think Jeff might have an ulterior motive.
Almost sounds like you’re saying he should just keep the money and not donate it, and that would make him a better person and the project better.
It’s how I learn and have changed my opinions on things my whole life.