I like looking at and throwing my monkeys daily. Usually have 2 in my YYF case
ugh thats THE conspiracy. lovely
I wonder what caused MFD to blow up. All of @zslane ’s points have always been the case with MFD but they’ve been around for a long time and the hype wasn’t always like this, or even until somewhat recently to my knowledge. I used to have a little MFD collection and the company was fairly underrated and not talked about much and their throws did not really demand a high price on the after market other than mayyybe the evilyo. But they’ve had small runs, unique designs, good manufacturing, and the best anodizing since the beginning.
I can’t think of another company off the top of my head that was underrated and had a small niche following to gaining a lot of popularity and hype like this.
They’ve been around like a decade but only really blew up like 2 years ago?
It’s the BST effect 100% this has been happening the past few years. I’d suggest that MFD is only seeing that effect in the last year with regular run models fetching $300.
It happens when one or two people (particularly on FB BST) start particularly looking for models. Then others who haven’t seen that yoyo get influenced by the FOMO and start searching too. Then people start quoting high prices “oh man that’s worth CRAZY money!” comments with no intent to buy. And then the magic happens where all of a sudden everyone is searching for that thing and paying top dollar.
Past examples over the last five years include the Bape/Viz and the Canvas. Each had a period where they got the YOYO FOMO treatment and spiked crazy in price.
Not taking away anything from MFD, in fact one of the characteristics of this phenomena is also that the throw in question is good. But I imagine within a year or so we will see a cooling in the secondary market. I believe they will always hold value at retail or higher, but feel the secondary market values we’re seeing today are an all time high, at least while MFD is still in business.
To put a spin on what’s been said above: The MFD phenomenon might be compared to a “cult” film like the Big Lebowski. It gains a relatively small but very “hardcore” group of fans and then due to their hyping (“you gotta watch this… it’s so amazing!”) it catches on more broadly. Some beyond the “cult” “get” it while others just don’t.
This is not at all to disparage MFD. I appreciate the work that Ray puts into his products. The anos are something else to say the least. But there’s something to be said for jumping on one of the Facebook yoyo groups or another and seeing the same few people tooting the horn on the hype train over and over again. That very vocal “cult,” if you will, has played a huge role in this. They generate buzz that leads to curious throwers posting one “LF: MFD” post after another.
Ray still only charges roughly 100$ for top quality craftsmanship and oversees most if not all of the production? That’s kind of a big deal. Were acting like it’s another company that sells single units for more than 1k.
Honestly I don’t think there’s any hate here, people are legitimately questioning why when you can get a release directly from the manufacturer for $100, the secondhand market has all of a sudden gone to paying hundreds of dollars for that exact throw. That wasn’t the case even a full year ago. People that bought the Anti-Pro in the recent drop are getting ridiculous money to immediately flip it.
Some part of me does think that is unhealthy for a brand because what ends up happening is that the drops become a game to get a lottery ticket that can be flipped for immediate financial gain. That feels lame to me. While I have a crazy big collection, I am also firmly of the mind that yoyos should be played. To buy something to case it or box it for resale value especially when that product is limited feels like locking away a beautiful guitar that should be played and not just looked at as a financial tool.
It happens a lot. G2 and Mowl are probably the two biggest examples off the top of my head.
These kinds of spikes in secondary market trends always come and go. It’s nothing to get one’s panties in a bunch over. Sure, it’s mildly inconvenient for those who regularly succumb to FOMO, but it most certainly isn’t “bad” for the hobby (or for MFD) in the long run. 'Tis but a momentary blip in one tiny corner of the hobby, and it too shall pass.
Good point. I came into this thread to defend the couple of MFD throws in my collection. But the ones I got were direct purchases. My Conspiracy Raptor is one of my most favorite yoyos (I have lots). I love the play as much as the colorway. But hearing about the aftermarket woes, I think something unfortunate is happening.
The yoyos are nice, but supporting a market burst like this is just buying into hype pricing. This is all the market at play imo, and im not led to believe that anyone at MFD wants to support overselling in the aftermarket (hell, why wouldn’t they just mark up prices then?).
Overall great yoyos; not cutting edge performance but aren’t inferior to much, and the look is extremely snazzy. I like them and can see why others do too.
Apparently, there have been measures taken by other retailers to prevent what was mentioned in the second paragraph. If I’m not wrong, it was the drop for the Mowl Surveillance Ti. Prospective buyers had to fill out a survey so that the retailer could determine whether the buyers are going to flip the yoyo for profit on the secondary market.
I’m surprised nobody has answered this question, but it has to be their Omnibus boxes. Only 10 were ever made, so it’s extremely rare and the drops are cutthroat. I have never seen any appear on the BST since the Omnibus 2016 drop. Trying to get one of these is nearly impossible, and I believe it would be the most difficult item to get a hold of if anyone even bothers looking for one.
One thing I’m genuinely curious about is at what point people think things are getting purchased with intent to flip for profit? And not just people not liking the yoyo as much as the offers collectors make for them after your purchase? I bought an Anti-Pro and decided not to hold onto it because other people who wanted them were valuing them at way higher than what I was comfortable with keeping a yoyo at. I bought the yoyo with zero intent to sell or trade, but people post release were making very high offers for them that I didn’t expect to see. In this scenario am I just supposed to not play with the yoyo at all to keep it mint and nice, so I can get rid of it in a few months when I won’t be accused of scalping it any more? Because based on my knowledge of MFD stuff so far the price isn’t going down on them any time soon.
Somebody sold one recently for 200 dollars and was immediately accused of just trying to flip it for profit. There are collectors selling and trading these for very high values, and I’m not sure why they’d get rid of the yoyo at MSRP value, only to know that there’s a 95% chance it’ll swap hands again in a few weeks or months as part of another deal, and it’ll be for way higher than the MSRP they sold it for. To sell at MSRP in their scenario wouldn’t have done the community or market any good, the collectors who want them will still be offering the inflated prices that it’ll inevitably go for in the future.
There’s not really a good answer for this dilemma, but I’m also not really looking for an answer. I’m more just annoyed at the common claim people have that if you end up getting an MFD and ever get rid of it, you’re scalping it. Complain about the prices people are offering, don’t accuse people of scalping for just giving into offers other people make. I’m sorry I bought a yoyo that looked cool and that I enjoyed playing, but other people wanted it enough to make offers I couldn’t refuse.
Two Backstage passes sold on the forums for over 160 dollars when they were only 100 dollars MSRP. A collector just listed one for 185 on Facebook. When collectors are readily paying these prices, can you really blame the average yoyo player who only got one to play, but theirs is still mint saying “Dang I like this yoyo, but I don’t like it that much, I guess I’ll sell mine too.” I’m hoping with the Backstage Pass, that being part of the preorder will bring the price down drastically but who knows.
If offers other people make on yoyos don’t sway you, then more power to you, but at least for me almost everything in my collection is for sale if somebody just makes an offer on it. I buy with intent to play, but I have enough other yoyos that I like that if somebody makes me a decent offer on anything I have, I’d instantly sell. They’re just toys that I don’t have any sentimental value toward beyond thinking it’s another fun spinny thing to do tricks with.
Selling a yoyo for market value regardless of when you bought it should never be considered scalping. I think it’s super lame when people comment on other people’s sales. If the buyer and the seller are happy everybody else should keep their mouths shut.
You can’t blame a seller for being swayed by high purchase prices, and making people feel bad for selling in a hot market is weak.
Agreed with Bobafret and Mable, people calling people out as scalpers or flippers either on the BST listing or via DM need to mind their own damn business. Yeah, it sucks for them that they were not fast enough on the drop to get said yoyo or that they don’t have it within their budget to pay secondary. Don’t take your personal problems out on someone else though. Like Mable said, it’s a round spinny fun toy thing, don’t stress it.
I agree on not making assumptions about sellers’ original intentions and not blaming them for getting market value.
So then, playing devil’s advocate here… can we blame the market?
The only blame I would place is on people who chime in on the BST to say how a yoyo is worth hundreds of dollars with no intent of actually offering that themselves. Sometimes on the BST I see high values being pushed or supported by a set of people who I know are holding those models themselves. So at some point it starts to feel like a group of people who want to get inflated values for their own throws putting out values that aren’t really valid.
However, sometimes I think it just happens naturally and I think this MFD spike is a great example. Covid brought a TON of new people into the hobby. And it also was a time when a lot of people had some extra money laying around because they couldn’t go out as much. So I think some excitement on the BST about MFD just had a hungrier audience in this particular point in time and made for a really sweet secondary market.
MFD ano is out of this world, so I get the appeal even if it’s not for me.
As for the market, it makes sense for small manufacturers to do run sizes they can sell out every time. Then the complaints come when the resale market is so hot it makes some throws unobtainable. Then, we can complain about the complaining but I dunno. There are so many obtainable awesome yoyos now that future classics are probably sleeping under our noses. Granted, those killer spinners don’t have monkeyfinger ano!
TBH, there aren’t enough special aesthetic treatments on yoyos. Lots of the same. This makes MFD stand out.
I don’t know if there is cash to be made in the annodization industry, but if there is and someone was talented, they’d make a killing partnering with a company that was an established brand known for putting out quality yoyos. Not saying their isn’t already companies putting out mass produced high performance yoyos with mass produced anno jobs, but that’s not what I’m going with here. I’m talking boutique anno work