I was looking this one over after seeing it’s one of the prizes for Valentine’s. Couldn’t help but notice the price. Anyone know why the Freehand PC is so expensive (if you don’t win one)? I could very well be missing something, but that’s mid-premium momometal pricing and nearly double most PC throws.
I believe the price reflects the cost of machining. IIRC machining a PC yo-yo is roughly as expensive as machining an Al yo-yo. This also applies to the Delrin version.
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The iYoyo Shooting Star (including extra bearing & axle), Fulvia Stelvia X-SP, and Offset Plastic Cheatcode are all machined and $30. There are many more in this price range or cheaper. As for delrin, the YYFr Dove was only $35. Not saying it isn’t more expensive to machine than injection mold, but other companies are clearly doing it for far cheaper.
Fair points.
It stands to reason that machined Freehands are more expensive to produce than other plastic Freehands. Admittedly, it is not clear how much the cost difference explains the price difference.
I’m not sure it matters. These versions are priced similarly (if not actually higher) to machined aluminum Freehands. This suggests to me that $50+ is what Duncan expects people will pay for upgraded yo-yos in the FH line (other than Ti and Mg versions where material/production cost and the size of the market at sustainable prices change the dynamic considerably).
Other machined PC yo-yos are made under very different business models (Luftverk) or with different sales/marketing goals.
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i would argue they also had to machine the caps as well and fit them with a tight tolerance. that’s more work, higher cost on that alone. its also arguably the best plastic freehand one performance wise. it plays very close to the aluminum version in my opinion.
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Also the Fulvia and the p000 come in at $30, Pleak $40
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I thought that might be one factor. If that’s it, I don’t think caps (that can’t even be removed/swapped) justify $25+ extra over most PC models for me. The Speedhaolic XF is only $5 more, has plastic caps, and is a hybrid. Things like the Shooting Star, Speedaholic XX, and Dove worked in fingerspin dimples, which takes time and money to do right as well - though arguably less.
The sentimentality of the Freehand line likely plays into it as well, so to each his own.
Those are molded then machined, not machined from a solid block and benefit from economies of scale. Iirc Duncan said they were breaking even on these pretty much.
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Atmos Project machined plastics are priced above Freehands. The Canopy PC is only slightly lower.
I think that materials only tell a small part of the story.
I think what you’re both getting at is that different companies have different business models.
Taking Atmos for example, they pride themselves on being a premium, boutique brand that deals in limited releases. While that may work for them, finding ways to make a quality product of the same materials with similar techniques for drastically less money is part of being a successful, competitive company imo. That’s not to say I’m not enticed by a “premium” throw from time to time.
Even considering that, Duncan is a big name that I wouldn’t really consider boutique, and I think several members here would attest that their QC isn’t outstanding. Someone estimated Duncan put out about 200-250 of this model, which may be a low quantity for Duncan, but not for many small yoyo businesses. Still, I guess I can see how this one is a somewhat limited, special release of what’s become a beloved yoyo for many.
I don’t think this one’s for me personally, but I appreciate all the input.
I’m with ya man I dont think the polycarb FHs are worth the dough unless you specifically want one. Id say they are unique enough to sell at the price so it is worth it to price them there for Duncan.
My theory on the price is that it is outside the typical bulk that Duncan produces. So they have to price them at a cost for the smaller run. If they ever wanted to make so many of these they could stock every walmart they would 1) make a killing, and 2) drop in price because of mass production.
Im guessing duncan makes more of these than the boutique yoyo companies do their yoyos, but less than C3 or other polycarb known brands that make them in droves.
So basically, my guess its just the economy of the scale of the run plus the style being juuust outside their bread and butter norm.
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Jeff Pang commented on someone else post on Reddit about this.
He’s JP911.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Throwers/comments/196py1h/why_is_the_duncan_freehand_pc_so_expensive/
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Interesting thread. I saw Mr. Dressel chimed in there as well. Thanks for sharing!
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I clicked through to read his comment and saw that I already responded last year. lol
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So, I dont fully buy the PC machining is nearly as expensive as metal yoyos because of the caps arguement… just want to add to the convo, because I think it is a fair deep dive.
My comparison is the Duncan AL Butterfly. The name is ASSOCIATED with the more affordable butterfly line, and costs less than a PC Freehand. The Butterfly comes with delrin caps, so it is both machined AL and machined POM.
I dont think that is an end all be all arguement. But i think it is worth wondering why that yoyo wouldnt cost more, if it also has machined caps…
Just my 3rd cent.
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I believe that the argument is that machining any of these materials is similarly costly. Presumably it’s just a matter of production time, labor and capital costs overshadowing the material costs.
The caps are relevant because they are another part and the machining must be precise enough for the two to work together. But that is mostly for comparison to non-capped designs (especially interchangeable caps).
The 2023 AL Butterfly was introduced at $69.99. IIRC, to some skepticism.
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If I recall when the PC and delrin Freehand released they stated they weren’t making much profit on them and that they wont be doing another run because it.
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@bjardin replied to me when they came out, because I had inquired about the same thing. He said that the manufacture cost was close to the same as producing a bimetal and they had I high rate of b grades. Hence the price. And hence why there will never be another run.
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The Freehand series in its own right has also become a collectable series started in 2000, not to say the Speedaholic series hasn’t become collectible as it has it’s own following form over the years which started in 2013; but its not at Freehand numbers yet. Within the Freehand series there are more than a few “price point” models, the Delrin and PC FH1s were aimed at fans of the Freehand series to complete the material versions of the classic FH1 profile, these two also had a special C bearing spacer, similar to the (Pink - World Contest Edition - LARGE BEARING) FH1p which also sells at a higher price point amongst the stock A bearing versions. The Delrin models sold out the quickest and they were the most finicky to produced with the lowest number produced, hence also making them more collectable if you are into Freehands.
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I really don’t get why this is something people always bring up… It seems very in line with the price difference we see between brands with mono metals to me.
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