Is there such a thing as a metal looping yoyo?
I realize that metal hurts more if it hits you, which is probably more prevalent when practicing 2A, but at some point I figure you get good enough that hitting yourself doesn’t happen anymore and metal becomes something you don’t have to fear. Or am I wrong about that?
The Tom Kuhn silver bullet or silver bullet 2 could be a looping yoyo. The ILYY Trvth as well.
I’d recommend though sticking with yoyos that are designed for looping.
Whimsy made the Lessur a few years back. It was pretty heavy and slow for looping, but possible.
Sure, but I was wondering why nobody makes a metal yoyo designed specifically for looping. Is it a weight issue? Surely an aluminum looper can be manufactured with thin enough walls that it isn’t any heavier than a plastic looper, right?
AntiYo did 1 set of prototype loopers, made from Titanium.
If you filter the yoyos available for purchase (at YYE’s webstore) by play style, there must be nearly a hundred 1A models that are metal (or bimetal). If you filter for 2A, exactly zero are metal. I’m just wondering what the core reason is for this disparity.
I think it’s that the properties that metal or bi-metal brings to a 1A yoyo aren’t needed in a looping yoyo. The looping yoyo generally is thrown out and returns immediately. A 1A yoyo benefits from a longer spin time that metal or bi-metal construction can produce. I’m sure there are other reasons as well.
That makes sense to me. But then I wonder why metal yoyos like the Deep State are so popular. They are responsive, right? If shaped slightly differently, and maybe made slightly lighter, what would prevent them from being good 2A yoyos?
Please forgive how naive all this sounds; I am not very familiar with the more subtle needs of 2A play.
Starburst response is impossible on a metal yoyo so the feel would be quite different, wouldn’t it?
The deep state is made for responsive play and basic stalls and other fixed axle type tricks. In the case of the deep state it brings something to the table because you can distribute weight better with aluminum and it has a bearing so you have longer spin times. Both of which aren’t really necessary in 2a.
starburst response on an aluminum yoyo isn’t impossible, just wouldn’t make a lot of sense.
Right but has anyone ever machined a starburst response on a metal yoyo, ever? I don’t think it exists!
Yes. Oxy1, Henry’s Coral Snake and Yomega Wing Force are a few that come to mind.
Why is a starburst response system in particular so necessary for 2A? What does it do that a response pad system can’t do? What if you made response pads broader (not thicker, but spanning more of the inner surface of each wing)?
Oh wow interesting, I love to learn these details, thank you for the clarification!
However note that the Oxy1 “was never released” and the 2010 version of the Coral Snake abandoned the metal starbursts. On top of that, the Wing Force article says
The original version had a reverse (recessed) starburst response system that had caused patent issues with Playmaxx. Because of this, Yomega redesigned the Wing Force and replaced the reverse starburst response system with a series of concentric rings machined into the surface around the area of the bearing.
So yeah, starburst response on metal is extraordinarily rare?
@zslane I just bought my first looping yoyos about a month ago and I was kinda shocked how different they felt in play … I am only used to silicone response pads and the starbursts were significantly different to me, at least!
Yeah, have to mill them, can’t make them on a lathe. And nowadays, doesn’t make sense to use starbursts. Especially as metal starbursts would eat up strings like crazy!
I feel like there were a couple other metals with starbursts, just can’t think of what they were.
I’m sure some enterprising designer could engineer a set of smooth metal tines that had the same, if not better, friction characteristics as plastic for the starburst pads. This, of course, assumes that starburst pads are the only style of pads that could work well for 2A, which I’m still skeptical about.
But ultimately it seems to me this is less of a design/engineering/manufacturing problem and more of an issue of “why bother?” 2A just doesn’t seem “big” enough (market-wise) to drive the development of metal alternatives, and without a big push in R&D, not enough prototypes will emerge to show their potential for 2A.
So I guess the real answer may be that there’s simply not enough marketplace demand to push the 2A envelope in terms of yoyo development–metal yoyo development in particular–any further than the current status quo. Coupled with the prevailing belief that we’ve achieved the absolute pinnacle of looping yoyo design with the ProYo shape, made out of plastic, featuring starburst response pads, and produced with flawless manufacturing. The only thing that seems to differentiate brands and/or models is color and graphics.
Delrin loopers would be awesome, though. Delrin is closer to metal in density at least, and you kinda remove the damage and pain aspect of metal?
The RecRev Reverb (2012) is the only one I can find? Oh wait there is the Turning Center Goemon and YoYoRecreation Negator as well? But the 2015 version of the Negator was switched away from delrin. I dunno.
Wow that Goemon is really something though. Wooden caps…
I can loop a Deep State, the new AlleyCat, and Confusions about as well as I can loop anything, which isn’t great. They aren’t really designed for that, but they’re responsive enough to do it, especially the Confusion and Confusion GT. Haven’t really been able to loop the OG AlleyCat or the Gamer.
@zslane A lot of modern loopers don’t use starburst response. They use pads just like other yo-yos
Also, plastic hurts less when it hits you in the face