2A Raider mod questions

I have some questions about Pat Cuartero’s (YYN) guide to modding Raiders, many of which are related to each other:

  1. Why do you have to “crank” or “overtighten” it? Can’t you just sand the flat side of the spacers to get the gap you want then sand the lip on the other side to the level you want relative to the starburst?

  2. When you are “cranking” the yo-yo, is the purpose to crush the plastic spacers to get the gap you want? Why not sand the flat side of the spacers instead?

  3. Why does he say popping and cracking sounds are normal? What is actually happening to the yo-yo when “cranking”? Isn’t it cracking the plastic around or under the nuts?

  4. If you “crank”, then “uncrank” like he says, how do you actually end up tightening the gap?

  5. Why do you want the lip even with the starburst? Does it give better sleep times like the Unleashed raised starburst? What is bad about sanding it below the starburst?

  6. Do you have to “recrank” if you end up opening the yo-yo later?

If you know the answer to any of these, let me know. These questions have been bugging me for a long time and are probably why I’m reluctant to try modding a Raider/Fireball. Man, they sound breakable after they’re done correctly. I would be afraid of taking them apart or hitting them against something.

Can you ask him? Pat?

If you put the plastic spacers in the Raider, without sanding them, they are already thinner than the original spacers, and you will have the spacers stick out and completely cover the bearing. If you already have the materials, put the spacers in, and you will see what I am talking about. So you have to sand the side that faces the bearing. You sand it until it is level with the starburst response. You have to over tighten the yoyo because the spacers and bearing is thinner than when the yoyo stops tightening. I didn’t have any popping noise, I cranked really slowly, and constantly unscrewed it. Unscrewing the yoyo helps relieve the tension, so when you crush the plastic, you only do a little at a time, instead of all at once. You sand even with the starburst because you don’t need to go further. It probably adds response, also. You will not have to recrank the yoyo after unscrewing when the mod is over. Good luck with the modding.

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I did an experiment where I put plastic spacers in 2 raiders then in one raider over cranked it and sanded down the starburst. In the other I just put plastic spacers in it. The result: the one left with just the spacers played a lot better. I found it looped better and was overall just great. The over cranked one didn’t loop as well and I generally didnt like it. Just my opinion though

What happens is that once you sand the spacers, the axle extends further into the hole the axle goes in. It is actually longer than the hole and bottoms out. The “cranking” is pushing the axle through the plastic in the end of the existing hole. In effect you are breaking the axle through the plastic, which can cause the axle or the threaded insert to strip if you are not careful. I’ve asked numerous times why people don’t just grind the axle shorter and never got a satisfactory answer.


Thanks for the responses! See my comments and questions below in blue:

[b]Yes, I’m very curious why people don’t grind the axle end(s). I guess it might be tricky not to grind too much. Or perhaps use a very small drill bit to drill the plastic where the axle "bottoms out. Once again, I guess that would be tricky.

Any more comments from the community? Why not grind the axle ends?

In addition, I also thought it would be nice to let the spacers and bearing determine the size of the gap like most other yo-yos. If the plastic spacers are too thin for that, I would think shims would not be hard to make. That way there’s no cranking, no possibility of cranking irreversibly too far, and no stress on the plastic.[/b]

The purpose of the mod is to close the gap. Using thinner spacers, then adding shims negates those efforts.

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I got the impression from Austin and you that when the yo-yo stops tightening, it’s because the axle has hit the limit and not that the spacers and bearing have come together. To let the spacers and bearing determine the final gap size, you may have to add shims if the spacers are really thin. I don’t really know.


Edit: I’m assuming here that we have shortened the axle so it doesn’t bottom out, allowing the spacers and bearing to all come together.

The purpose of shaving the spacers is to narrow the gap. The reason to “crank” is to push the axle which is now too long through the plastic so that the spacers and the bearing do determine the final gap.

I’mma just order some Loop 1080s or something. :wink: All this sanding and cranking doesn’t sound worth the effort!

If so, you must be describing a different method from Pat’s. It sounds like he says to stop cranking when you get the right gap width, not when the spacers and bearing come together. That’s why I thought the spacers might be too thin for using the spacers and bearing to determine the gap. He only shaves the other side of the spacer to get the lip even with the starburst ridges. I think I like the method you’re describing if it works and the spacers are thick enough.

GregP, don’t worry, when we come up with the perfect, foolproof mod, you’ll love it :wink: I don’t want to crank either, but sanding I know how to do!

Send me a link to Pat’s method.


The pictures are gone now, but the method is still there.  I figure it’s ok to link YYN now.

I think we’re talking about the same thing, though people who do these generally don’t talk about the axle length issue. Perhaps they are not quite forcing the bearing and spacers together, which is how they achieve some tunability in the process.

They are beast! Get them!

Yeah, maybe that’s how they achieve tunability. Of course if they never sand the back side of the spacers, cranking the gap will be limited at a certain point. Maybe that’s a really small gap though. I’m concerned about the possibility that if you do grind the axle (so it’s not the limiter) that the final gap for unsanded spacers would be too small, in which case something like shims would be needed.

I’d like to get the axle length issue addressed too by the experts out there.

I’m trying to be relentless in figuring this out because I’m tired of not understanding what’s going on in the raider mod and would like to know if it can be done without cranking. Thanks!

Edit: Hmm, I wonder how teaming up Loop 1080s with sandable raider spacers would work. That way you can set the gap with the YYF mechanism and sand the spacers to be even with the starburst. It may be more expensive, but it might be nice and risk free and worth it to many. Of course I don’t know the differences in weight distribution…

Loop1080 [and its older brother, 900] plastics spacers are basically oversanded versions of Raider spacers. The spacers are ‘sanded’ [for lack of a better word] that it’s lower than the starburst. You can give it a try, but I don’t know what difference it will make…


Here’s what I discovered this week:

I had a broken fireball (same body as a raider, different axle) so I broke it all the way open. The nut came out and it turns out that it stops screwing together when the nut hits the smooth part of the axle and the end of the axle is even with end of the nut. It does not poke out the end of the nut and can not tighten any further because it runs out of axle threads.

I screwed a raider together without a spacer and this too stops when the nut hits the smooth part of the axle and the end of the axle is even with the end of the nut. The raider is transparent so it is easy to see the axle even with the end of the nut. It leaves the typical, big raider gap.

I don’t see how “cranking” would tighten any farther since the axle can not stick out the end of the nut; it just runs out of threads and that determines the gap. Can anyone explain?

It would push the nut in the plastic to make the gap smaller. I screws then if you keep on screwing the nut will break the plastic and make the gap smaller. That’s how I see it.