I largely agree. However, I’m not overall all that impressed with the choice of using dice for a counterweight, but that’s just a matter of opinion. At least they aren’t using razor-sharp edged casino dice. I’d prefer to see a bead-type thing myself. I’m not good enough to consider 5A yet but I’d prefer my counterweight to be a ball or bead.
I’m having custom dice made for promotional purposes so I’ve learned a lot about that recently.
I’m more concerned about the “technology”, which is where the patent is. I also admit I don’t know enough about bearings to make alternate suggestions.
What I prefer are cleaner lines. I don’t want the counterweight to look like it’s just something that you looped the string around it. So, this is heading in the right direction.
I’d like to see something in the end where you don’t see the string coming out of the other end(opposite where the string goes to the yoyo).
What’s going to happen is that as with anything else, someone else will come up with a variation on a theme. If they are smart, they use the patent to collect licensing fees or they can be the supplier of the finished product to some other company and still make money. Or even sell it as a stand along after-market product.
You can build a better mousetrap, you can build a better yoyo, you can build a better counterweight. This is new right now so we just need to see how it plays out.
with my little experience, I can say DD5A might deserve some R&D, playing with different weights and systems
instead, I’m on my own, buying roleplay dices of different sizes and weights, having to get them drilled at work, just to try it on my own, it costs money, time, hassle
what if I want a lighter CW to play 5A with my pacquiao ? again, DIY or die
now most of my CWs are self drilled/modified dices and a few (too heavy but with a perfectly shaped hole and nice inertia/feel) astrojax balls
a nice middle CW for double dice might have a different hole than the standard duncan CW to allow more free string movement
a good idea would be to maybe find a better shape for the middle CW, allowing better manipulation
maybe a brand new CW setup for DD, much like YYJ CW seems to be (but I fear the bead to be too light to my liking)
there have been some small innovations, but all remained on the DIY level
if you’re lucky, you know the guy and he can do it for you privately, otherwise, you’re stuck with whatever you have
and I’m not the DIY kind of guy, I wish I could actually buy that online
Normally, I’d say that’s not a long time. 12 years in a bigger scope of things is relatively short. However, that’s at least 6 lifetimes in the data comm and computer world. And yoyo has evolved quite rapidly in recent years. 12 years is in fact a long time for this activity the way it’s going.
I guess no company is daring to jump into the counterweight marketplace big time yet. I can go to a hobby or craft store and buy beads should I not like what’s available. Or I can buy other objects and modify them. For me, the skull stuff, dice and other “heads” aren’t something I am interested in being on the other end. What’s cool is that the counterweight should be a part of the player’s personal style, even through in the end the concept is the same.
For me, 1A is what I want to learn. 2A? Not so much but I’d like to be able to do a few things. 3A? No, not going to bother with that for a while. 4A? That looks like fun. 5A? Yeah, I want to get into that.
I actually got most duncan CWs including a few LE ones
@Studio42
I can understand what you say, but for me, making my own CW is not really a suitable option, I can’t do anything with my hands, I’d rather be able to buy something nice from someone
yes the CW should be a part of the player’s style, that’s exactly my point, not only aesthetically, but also in it’s function
are duncan CWs working ?
yes, they are, they are polyvalent and weight an ideal weight for standard 5A
are duncan CWs ideal in any situation ?
no, they aren’t, they kind of work, but they could be made to better suit some “alternative” 5A/CW styles
I’d actually like to see more and more various CWs, how is that a bad thing for any of you guys ?
sorry but a shiny dice is not going to cut it, not even close
I wish Duncan would do it, but they seem happy with their current offer (and most of you guys too, apparently)
but I don’t see how more variety could be a bad thing
I totally understand not being able to make anything with one’s hands. I try, I fail. But for me, it’s the try that is important sometimes. This isn’t one of those areas.
What’s the issue you have with counterweights? Not heavy enough? Large enough? Not your style? With so many modders out there, I’m sure someone would be able to come up with something you like.
What’s really necessary are folks who are serious about 5A(I’m not even there yet) to start speaking somewhat loudly what they are looking for in a counterweight. If enough start talking, someone has to listen. This will force vendors to switch from “we do it because we can” and push out an inexpensive general product, to a vendor saying “we listen to users, and we do this to satisfy them” and come up with a superior product.
Regardless, nobody can make everybody happy. That’s why there’s so many different yoyos, and I see counterweights being the same way. However, I’m a noob at this point so I don’t know anything. I do understand customer service and I do understand product development, R&D and stuff like that. You listen to your audience base and you respond to their needs/wants/desires best you can.
Bearingized counterweights are going to cost more. How much is one willing to spend on a counterweight? I can’t answer that. How much are people willing to spend on custom counterweights? Well, people willing to spend on a custom counterweight will have done things like allocate funds and contact those who they think can help them out.
When I get to 5A, I want my counterweight to be the size of a SuperBall, made of a dense rubber, but not be bouncy. I want the weight, not the “sproing!”
and how good would it be to find one on your favorite online shop?
that said, you should try astrojax stuff, they’re fairly heavy and move around quite well, a bit too heavy for me and you probably need a heavy throw too (try hubstacking a DV888 with a PGM’s axle, works a charm)
What I want to say is that Duncan always wanted to be the definition of “yoyo”, but I think with their competition around, they should step it up and make a statement that they’re still in the game. They’re not making bad yoyos, but IMO they’re behind other manufacturers in terms of following the community, or leading it for that matter.
We emailed them, as we were looking for support for our blog, as we did with many other manufacturers, they didn’t seem very interested in it, while other companies were proper awesome and still are with their support. I mean we were the very first french blog, french community is growing, and we’re doing a good job (not bragging but we do, see for yourself), it would be interesting for duncan to show how they support a growing community, but they barely replied to our emails, while other companies provided real and significant support (we wouldn’t be where we are now without some of them).
But again, I’m not one to hate and I understand how such a HUGE business actually has to be managed, that said, IMO we don’t see enough duncan, we don’t see enough love today, I’d love to see more, see Duncan as involved in the community as other manufacturers are, just as they used to be in the past.
5A patent is only one aspect of the whole picture, but right now, check on these boards, ask the kids to name one manufacturer, how many would say Duncan ? there will be some, but I doubt it’ll be a majority
and that’s too bad
I’d like duncan to step up, show the community some love, not only for 5A, but also release kick ■■■■■■■■■■■ sponsor new, young and up and coming players (tho the duncan team is STACKED with talent, but maybe a little “plain”)
You got YYF on one hand, collaborating with fatlace.com, adidas or tony hawk, and on the other hand, Duncan not willing to help out emerging yoyo communities.
OneDrop sponsored Zammy, Duncan didn’t, I think they really should have because he’s probably going to be one big name in the up & coming yoyo world.
I could go on, now again, I’m not hating, just want more love, more duncan in my yoyo world. The raptor ain’t gonna cut it.
Maybe I’m too lazy to look, or not entering the right search terms, but it seems to me that according to some, the stuff is out there, but it isn’t easy to find.
The nice thing about 5A play is you can pretty much whatever you want to us, put a counterweight on the other end and you’re good to go. This presents two markets:
A dedicated product marketed for 5A(a yoyo with a counterweight included)
Those who just want counterweights.
But you have to let people be able to find it easier!
What’s all the fuss about? Companies can make yoyos that are good for 5a they just can’t make the CW. It’s not stopping any companies from making good 5a yoyos.
believe whatever you want dude, it’s a free country, I know what I care for
caring doesn’t mean “always agreeing”, caring also mean “be honest”, “be true”, even when things are wrong. You better understand this or your life will be the hell of a ride.
your best friends in life will not be those constantly agreeing with you, those who care the most are those who will be harsh on you some times.
I know I care, this is why I spend so much time typing these messages, rather than posting one sentence and a .jpg
if I didn’t care, I wouldn’t be typing right now
Trace: yes they can, but they can not market it as “5A material” nor communicate about it being “5A”, say X player is sponsored by this manufacturer, he’s a 5A player and wants a signature throw. They will not be able even to promote it by a video of the guy doing 5A with it. unless they pay.
if Duncan doesn’t allow it or do it themselves, there will never be, for example, Balanced Double CW sets for DD5A (again, I can’t wait to try it but I have doubts about YYJ CW to be ideal, although I can see some improvements). We got titanium throws out there, $200/500 “luxury” throws, what if I wanted a $100 “luxury” and limited edition counterweight? what other choice do I have, today, than craft it myself ? and then it won’t be as good as I want because I can’t do it properly
now the illuminated dice is nice, but it’s still a dice, the light won’t help anyone to invent new tricks, it’ll make it “shiny” but surely not “collectable”, it’ll just be like a regular dice, but it’ll do light as well. see my point ?
This conversation is getting extremely annoying. CarlG said it best:
We all get it, some people like Duncan, some don’t, for whatever their reasons are. Lets just focus on what YYJ has now brought to the table and move on.
My big question is, will YYJ sell their CW separate from the yoyo? (if this was answered I’m sorry, I’m just not going to sift through the flame throwing) Either way, I think this new CW is pretty rad if I don’t say so myself.
Actually, no. Duncan does NOT have exclusive rights to counterweights, just the ones they have patented, or rather the technology they patented.
I mean, what’s to stop someone from putting a rock or a fishing weight or a chicken bone or a golf ball on the other end? Or what If I weld a swivel onto a ball bearing? Or maybe superglue a cube of Technic Lego blocks together with a hole in the middle for the string to pass?
What will happen is the 5A “craze” will expand as more people want to get into it. Then, other companies will say “hey, we’re missing marketplace here” and start producing products, be it yoyos intended for 5A or accessories for 5A, or perhaps both. What will then happen is, just like with the other styles of play, the community as a whole will benefit. Then, as things settle down a bit, the better products will still be around and the not so good stuff will get discontinued.
I think the various companies just aren’t jumping into the 5A area because maybe they don’t see much money in it. Really, what do you need? A good sleeping yoyo is your core, right? Then, all you need is something at the other end. Maybe they feel we’ll just take care of it on our own for now?
The more players talk and request, the more that companies will listen. Trust me, companies that care tend to listen to their users. That doesn’t mean they always jump on all ideas and suggestions, but it does mean they at least compile data to see what they might want to invest resources and funds into.
The last thing we need is a flame war. What the community needs is for the manufacturers to be aware of what the community is interested in and hope that they respond with products that people want. As with any product, you can’t please everyone with one single solution or offering.
Right now, I see a nice niche market for the modders to get into and start offering their own products available to those who want to purchase it. The good stuff will get snapped up by the big companies and then re-branded and marketed properly. I see opportunity for some individuals here. Not me though, this isn’t an area I want to specialize in.
Actually, you are wrong. Duncan has the right to the style of 5A. As it sits, anything that involves the yoyo being attached to something other than the player’s hand is exclusive property of Duncan.
As Carl said, the best way for this thread is to get back on topic and drop the Duncan patent issue. They own the style of 5A and that is that. Nothing hadoq, or anyone else says is going to change any of it.
There have been many modders who have created bearingized counterweights before YoyoJam released theirs. Only one I can think of that did it well. None of those aforementioned modders were willing to sell them for fear of a lawsuit from Duncan. Duncan indeed does own all rights to 5a as Q said while I was typing this haha. Duncan has given certain rights to YYJ which is why they are able to market their new CW.
I’m just stating facts. I agree with CarlG that this flamewar should end. I don’t think I helped end it but I wanted to put that out there.
On topic. I am super excited for YYJ’s Destiny. I want to get one as soon as possible. I also am super excited for Duncan’s new Light up FHZ and CW to be released this fall I believe.
The original clear dice are highly sought after. I believe these clear light up ones will be highly sought after as well. I don’t see Duncan making too many of these. I plan on picking up two. One to play. One to collect.
