Worlds Rules Changes

Hey everybody,

As some of you may know, there have been some changes to the scoring of the world yoyo contest, the primary that I’d like to talk about is the changes to scoring Möbius. (You can find a full list of rules here

Now. A lot of you know that I’m biased in this discussion, but there’s a rule change that has happened, that I, and a few others believe is detrimental to yoyoing as we know it, and that is the rule stating that Möbius tricks will not be scored during a routine. I say that I’m biased, because Daniel Ickler is a friend of mine, and, in fact, was the person who brought this to my attention. He expressed concern over Twitter about how this effects him as a competitive yoyoer, considering this rules change basically says “we won’t count your style”. A style that Daniel (better known as Zammy) has not only popularized, but truly furthered. After a conversation with him, he saw no point in trying to bring this up, to talk about it, because it’s already been decided.

I do.

I feel that this rules change is detrimental to yoyoing at competitions as a whole.

Before we get into that, I can understand why the change seems necessary. Möbius is different. It falls in a gray area of yoyoing, and can be, presumably, hard to judge. But we’re talking about judges who are accomplished yoyoers themselves. Surely they can judge Möbius for what it is, and not fall back on the excuse that Möbius is a gray area. I understand that it might be in an attempt at fairness, seeing that Möbius can be hard to judge, they don’t want to jip a Möbius player of a few points. But as the current ruling sits, we’re jipping them of so much more. We’re jipping them of a chance.

The other point I wanted to touch on was what this means as a whole to the yoyoing community who like to go to contests. It means that the innovation that you’ve made, that you’ve pioneered, and worked hard to improve upon might not be allowed at a future contest. It means that you could pour your heart into working on a style that plays around with the mechanics of a particular style, and told that it’s not going to be scored. And I think that’s wrong.

I think we as yoyoers should be expected and encouraged to push the envelope. And be rewarded for doing so by taking down contests, and competing.  Not by getting sat down and told that it’s not allowed.

Zammy thinks it won’t be changed, but I do.

Please. Discuss below. Tell me what you think of the issue. Should we allow Möbius? Should it be banned? Should Möbius players be relegated to the AP competitions or in their own category?

And if you care. Please share this with somebody.

Go here

And ask for a change in the rule. Because I really think this should not end in silence.

And I’m not meaning this to seem like the sky is falling. Because it’s not. In reality, this change touches maybe three or four people. But to them, the sky may as well be falling.


We need more Möbius in yoyoing.

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Zamstrom is a competitive yoyo player? News to me.

If it was 1A, it would be allowed, if enough people were halfway interested in it, it would be its own division. Neither of those things are true, so its gone. Good for them, simplifies things for the judges.
They shouldn’t have to think “aw, hell, here’s the one Moebius player in the country, lets all deliberate for ffifteen minutes about how we’re going to score a routine outside the top ten”.

We are not “jipping” them of Jack. Takeshi placed 1st and 2nd in the two most competitive divisions last year. If Daniel wants to win he just needs to get better. Plain and simple.

Its not like the guy was placing top 3 every year and then they decided to oust his style. His ish doesn’t fit, so its not allowed.

Yeah!!! No innovation!! Creativity is for losers!! Dude, this is how events are born, and we shouldn’t stifle innovation.


There shouldn’t have to be that much deliberation or even deviation in the scoring between Möbius and 1A play. Score it the same freaking way you’d score 1A and there’s no hassle. Not to mention, like I said, the judges are some of the best yoyoers in the world, it shouldn’t be that hard to wrap their heads around it. Not to mention the fact that judging isn’t that scientific. You’re being JUDGED. There is a baseline to judging, but there’s still some of it that is discretionary.

i feel this should happen with mobius AND double dragon. even though both are technically sub-styles of 1a, it would be fun to make a new division in yoyo contests after 15-20 years.

i can (hypothetically) see people who want to do a double dragon freestyle, yet want to compete in an actual 1a freestyle, but end up having to choose 1a because they aren’t as good at double dragon (with the same happening for mobius)

and if anything it would unlock the extreme potential in both of these fairly new styles and get more people into it, therefore getting a larger competition pool, and maybe even more innovation in other styles and new up-and-comers

I don’t do mobius nor do I watch videos of it I don’t know its just not really my thing I guess but I don’t think they should just not score it like that because that deffinatly does ruin some of the creative aspects of yoyoing. Sure not that many people do mobius but its still a unique style of yoyoing. I mean what if they removed 5A back when it first started. Oh Steve Browns the only one that does 5A right now so lets remove it because not enough people do it.

Now what would the yoyo world look like today without 5A? Its the same thing sure mobius isn’t a very big thing right now but mabey it will grow and in a couple years it might be a big thing. Just because its not big now doesn’t mean you can just not score it because if you do that it will never become a big thing.

So yea that’s my opinion again I’m not a huge mobius fan but I don’t think its right for them to completely remove a style of yoyoing from the judging system

Y’all don’t even call it 1A. Why should something that isn’t 1A be permitted in 1A?

Its also not new. At all. If it was gonna pick up and become common place, it would have happened already.

I don’t see people getting up on stage throwing slippery eel in the 5A divisions. Probably because it’s not 5A.

Rome wasn’t built in a day. Some things take time.

If you take the yoyo off the string in 1A competition, they don’t count any points until its back on. Why should it be different for taking the string off your finger?


Also, it is entirely possible to create and innovate, changing the way a division is looked at, while staying within the confines of that division and simultaneously being competitive.

Case in point, John Ando, 2008.

Moebius is not innovation in 1A, because it isn’t 1A. Its something different.

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So validity is solely dependent on popularity? I’m not arguing that Möbius as a style should be thrust into the spotlight, I’m saying that by sweeping it off, you’re not allowing for innovation in our hobby as a whole. I can appreciate noticing the differences in play between normal 1a and Möbius, but by not allowing it to be judged, it’s stifling creativity. Which is exactly what we don’t want at the highest level of competition in yoyoing.

So, where’s the line between 5A and Mobius, Q? In the weight? What if someone who plays mobius also happens to be someone who uses one of those finger guards around the string? That’s a counterweight, so you’re now throwing 5A, in the 1A division.

One yoyo, tied to your string, tied to your finger. 1A. Validity is based on the God damn rules.

I think creativity should be encouraged. For those of you who think this will help möbius and double dragon grow are sadly mistaken. More and more yoyoers won’t get exposed to very neat styles of play. It would be like the NBA outlawing the crossover dribble. Flashy point guards like Chris Paul would become bench warmers. The next Chris Paul will never exist. The next Zammy and Ky may never come along if suppressing creativity is in the rule book.

And to the guy getting salty over have different names:

How do you feel about chopsticks tricks? Since those have their own name, should they be outlawed?

Names? You obviously havent been reading my posts, Crazy.

You’re all basically asking for 1A to be an open division. Just hop up there and do what you want, as long as the yoyo starts tied to a string and your finger.

Chopsticks? You mean the tricks performed in segments between your fingers? WHILE THE YOYO IS TIED TO YOUR FFINGER AND A STRING?
Shut up, dude.

You typed it. I read it. I’m not going to tell you to shut up, or use expletives either. (I’m not that rude to people don’t know) I’m just going to ask you a simple question. What’s wrong with trick types having names?

Oh, gosh… you really just don’t understand… wow.

Moebius is an entirely different style, not a “type” of trick within a style. Sure, there are “Chopsticks” 1A tricks, slack 1A tricks, whatever. What makes them 1A is that there is. A. Yo. Yo. Tied. To. Your. Finger. And. A. String.

Moebius is not 1A, and people differentiate between the two because they are entirely different. As different as 1A vs 4A vs 5A at the very least.

The tricks may have different names, but they meet the parameters of the division.

I feel that you need to put yourself into the affecteds shoes Mikers. How would you feel if you were doing a variation of 1a that you loved that was within the rules at the time, and then they took away your right to compete like that. I don’t know about you but I’d be pretty mad. Also, why not change the rules to allow for better judging of the style, as opposed to removing the right to compete in it? It wouldn’t be much harder for experienced judges to judge.