Loved my Narwhal back then, about those specs I think.
Loved your Battosai too. Never got that cherry blossom though. I even took a photo in candle light with one of them. Isn’t it romantic, nickel in candle light. 
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Is that a nickel plated?
I don’t even have one of those anymore
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Larger yoyos have become more common. 7075/7068 Alu has become more common. Bimetals have become more common.
All 3 of these contribute to greater stability and increases the ceiling of a yoyos performance.
Undersized yoyos are generally less stable and forgiving. With yoyos becoming better overall, and more companies and yoyos than ever before, the markets become way more competitive so undersized yoyos have become less common because they lack the stability, spin time, and just overall performance
My first post in this thread pretty much sums up how I’ve seen the overall progression of yoyo design The evolution of the yoyo shape
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Has anyone had any experience with more competition oriented undersized throws, like the turning point 2 or the counter-jet?
And large diameter to hit whips and meta tricks easier
Personally, 50-54 diameter is my sweetspot. The bigger throws are fine, but its tough to find well made yoyos that size anymore.
I.do like the move to wider throws though too. I like all widths
How does a wide diameter help with whips?
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I’m assuming it’s just a bigger area to hit. That’s what I’ve always thought
I don’t think it entirely does. As most bigger yo-yos have a wider width proportional to their diameter making whips easier. The opposite for smaller yo-yos: Smaller diameter= More narrow width
It is. Had it and a ‘works’.
I figure the string you’re using would affect whips and slacks more than width! But that’s just my 2 cents
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Definitely, but there’s more area to contact with a bigger diameter compared to a smaller one.
I’m gonna disagree here. Diameter doesn’t affect catchability at all. At least, not in any increment as much as width.
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There is the case of the Turning Point 2 and the Counter-Jet.
Undersized throws with larger widths.
The only undersize yoyos I’ve ever had were a Flying Squirrel, Mosquito and a DV888. That pretty much sums up my opinion on smaller throws.
Wise old mans’ turn. Something I learned about 20 years ago.
“The center of the gap is Always in the middle of the yoyo”.
20 years ago; the the best tricks at the time were done on: Freehands, Renegades and yoyos of similar size and width. And none of them was wide. I saw guys doing 1A routines with Raiders😳.
Wider yo-yos obviously do offer larger slop catch zones. For guys that are too lazy to perfect their ‘string/gap’ alignment.
Dave Bazan, Dave Shulte, Dave Capurro were using Spintastic Tigersharks or yoyos of similar size and width. Regardless; none of them were wide.
And… most yoyos way back then; didn’t even use the wider C size bearing. So not only were the yoyos comparatively narrow; but the gaps were smaller.
It’s more of a mind thing as much as any other explanation.
Width is a Mind over matter thing. If you don’t mind; it won’t matter.
On the other hand; if someone convinces you the width of your yoyo is a critical factor in you hitting tricks; than you will constantly face a personal dilemma.
Steve Brown said something many many years ago. He said ‘You haven’t mastered a trick until you can hit it with 5 different yoyos. And interestingly; way back when he said that; there were no wide yoyos🤓
Wide yoyos are fun. But you are to recognize they come with limitations.
If you like the sensation of throwing something that feels like a coke can or a pipe bomb; yippee.
One other thing. I like wide yoyos. So don’t think that I don’t. But; I never bought a Wide yoyo because I felt it was necessary to nail a certain trick.
…And yet; one other thing. Get a YYF GenXs yoyo and throw it for about an hour. Then get out a General Yo Ministar 2 and throw that for about an hour. Then read the title of this thread again.
It will make coming up with a good answer even more difficult. Both have built in Power-ups.
Way back in the early days of Yoyojam; Dale and I designed the; MiniMotrix(one of Andres’ all time favorite yoyos), the MiniMotu and the MicroMo. I did that deliberately to get people to understand that it’s not just about larger size, wider width or weight. It how the weight was distributed within the frame of the yoyos.
Approach yoyos with an open mind and not be jaded by ‘What you have to have to gain that edge’.
That Competition Edge. Especially considering that 95 percent of all yoyo throwers on the planet Earth; will never enter Any yoyo Contest at any level.
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I love that and completely agree. Before I knew anything about modern yo-yos, I learned all my first basic string tricks on a looping shaped fixy.
Made my double or nothing combos much smoother when I transitioned to something ball bearing
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I totally agree. I am not that great, will never compete, and have a limited trick set. However I love smaller throws with narrower catch zones. The Genxs, the Quint, Gamer, Parlay, Deep State, and others. I also love being more pocketable as well. The tricks I can do, I can do on all of them. I went through a period of time where I was trying to convince my self that I need wider to learn anything. Or if I couldn’t land something it must be the yoyo. Nope all me.
I do like my Wide Angle Shutter and Akita. The Akita is kne of my favorites to be fair. But there is something about mid sized and undersized throws that I really like.
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I’ve got to say I’m a real big fan of playing with undersized throws. I’m not going to compete in any competition and I only throw because I enjoy throwing so I don’t necessarily need a YoYo that can sleep for minutes on end and is ultra stable. I wouldn’t use an undersized one if I needed to make sure I could nail a trick on stage under pressure.
I also disagree that smaller throws are unstable. I think all they do is emphasise any mistakes that you make. I really like the Woolly Marmot, it plays a lot like a lighter version of a Peak and I think the weight distribution works well with it.
The Endeavor is another great little throw, definitely not forgiving to play, but I don’t think that was the design intention. Pickaxe is another fun throw, a mini chief in design but lacks the extra weight which drastically reduces spin time with poor string placement. But these are all really fun to play.
Perhaps there has been a decline with undersized throws because competition throws are easier to promote with people winning competitions with them and they are generally easier to play with.
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Another reason why we are moving away from undersized yoyos may just have to do with the cost of metal yoyos. When small metal yoyos were common, their “normal sized” counterparts were very expensive by comparison. Undersized metals that were better than the DV888 were about as expensive as full sized ones are now. In fact, some full size metals are less expensive than the old undersized throws.
A few examples:
If memory serves me, the YYF G-funk was around $50 American and was one of the more affordable high end metals. YYF Yuuksta was about $60. May have been 65, actually. YYJ Eneme was, I think, around $80. The YoyoJam Luxe Ltd. was around $90. These are prices you’d associate with mid-range all metals that are full size today and all of these yoyos have a diameter of about 50 mm.
I always felt a little short changed by how small these yoyos were when I got them, but they’ve grown on me a lot since then and I think they even have some advantages. Most of them had decent weights that gave them a solid feel, but their smaller diameter was ideal for doing chopsticks tricks and I was better able to use an undersized yoyo to learn Spirit Bomb. I had a much harder time getting the yoyo to drop into the triangle on the second hop with larger yoyos until I first landed it on an undersized throw.
A note about spin times, though. As long as it has a decent amount of weight on the rims, undersized yoyos have great spin times, though maybe not enough to be used in competitions. Of the ones I’ve mentioned, the G-funk is the one I had the hardest time with, though, because the weight is lower and more evenly distributed. It goes sideways very easily and I have to use a centering bearing to keep it more stable.
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I don’t recall smaller brands charging more for 54mm vs 50mm. Maybe that happened within the last 6 years? The Wooly Marmot/Peak were priced nearly the same. The Sky Walker/Battosai were too, and I’m pretty sure the 54 and Dietz were too.
Not listing for purpose of argument. More genuinely never saw this that I can recall.
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