Vs. Newton Charity Issues (2019)


#61

Would it be better to correct that to a collaboration? Maybe something else?


#62

:thinking:


#63

Womp lol. Fixed.


#64

Welllll… you can’t satisfy everyone on the internet you know.
On one hand there’s people find it inappropriate and annoyed with reviving a yoyo without the involvement with the original creator.
On the other hand there’s people so disgusted with Heath that even a yoyo involve with him in any little way is a nono for them.
And there is always the folks just want to see a revival of a great yoyo and care nothing about Heath and will be sad if the project is canceled.

You just can’t satisfy everyone out there, it’s the nature of the internet.


#65

If “minimum necessary Heath involvement” is the ideal way forward, I am pretty sure @HVizier and I can make that happen. It’s already quite minimal.

For example:

  • we had planned to put a signed note from Heath in the box and I definitely don’t think we should do that now.

  • we can formally mark it a “collaboration” rather than an “official VsN release”, this is basically the truth on the ground anyways

I personally feel it would be incredibly petty IMO to begrudge Heath the right to build up the boxes and final test, since we kinda need someone to do that anyhow.


#66

Definitely agree. I even acknowledged jumping the gun earlier.


#67

Is there a specific charity associated with the TiVayder project?


(Levi Neal) #68

So it seems clear Heath wants to use this to leverage his doors open again but would people buy from just him? Like after this project without codings name on it?


#69

Like others have said I think the main thing is it being an official VsN release and his perceived association and involvement with the project due to some of his past responses. I don’t have a big grudge on Heath like others here but even I see something off with him starting up with a new company IG and announcing it’s now a VsN release even though he isn’t really involved at all, even as you’ve said yourself.

I know he’s not that involved but his past responses just make it feel like hes acting like he’s more associated with the project than he really is. There’s no denying the dynamic and atmosphere of this project has changed with his appearance


#70

I agree with what all of you are saying, and for the 3rd time today I will say this:

I jumped the gun, and would have loved for this to be a VsN release, but it is a collaboration.

As I told Jeff via PM. This is his ship. I just designed it. The choices and project are his and always were his.

Again, I will tone that down, and have made the appropriate changes noted by @codinghorror.


#71

Just gonna throw my 2 cents in, even if I’m partially reiterating what has already been said.

  1. The amount of effort that went into getting Heath to even admit that he didn’t live up to his claims, lied to people, and re purposed charity money is disgusting. Reading the actual threads regarding this situation at the time of it’s relevancy make it clear that Heath was actively trying to avoid owning up to this, and had it gone unnoticed, he would’ve NEVER owned up to it.

  2. As far as whether or not this constitutes theft or bad business…it’s both. Stop sugarcoating it. He used that money for his team and himself to attend worlds. So it wasn’t just him keeping a promise to his team members, it was bringing himself to the world yoyo contest for a vacation. If that’s not using money for personal use, I don’t know what is. As far as keeping his promise to his team, he should’ve owned up to them and said he couldn’t afford it. Of course we can say this in hindsight, but if a grown man isn’t able to distinguish right from wrong in this situation then I am very worried about any involvement from him in any yoyo company in the future. He has proven that he doesn’t deserve to have any responsibility in this community.

  3. Who, in what world, would ever consider supporting a project that this man is involved in? I don’t care how long it’s been since his wrongdoings. I care that people are willing to look over a man taking money that was designated for charity, for cancer patients no less, and using it for PERSONAL (yes I said personal, spending money on your own vacation and to make yourself look good in front of your team constitutes personal spending in my book) reasons. Someone above asked what kind of community we want to portray ourselves as, and while I do believe in redemption, this was a rather heinous act that would’ve never seen justice if it weren’t for some extremely adamant members of our community. Do we want to be known as a community who welcomes back people who stole from charity in any sort of business position? Regardless of whether or not Heath is profiting off this project, he deserves to have zero involvement and his brand definitely deserves to never see a reboot. He should never be in charge of a brand again.

Do we make mistakes? Yes. Did he own up to his mistakes? Yes, but only after an absurd amount of intervention. If Heath wants to be part of the community, that’s fine. I understand that. But for anyone to want to see him in a place of business or power related to our community, I draw a line. I question the morality of these people. Heath lost his privilege to hold such a role in our community, and it’s time we start holding ourselves to higher standards.

Screw his blessing. Screw his involvement. Make the yoyo if you want, but don’t glorify a brand and/or person that doesn’t deserve it.


#72

Damn, some of you old-hats are ruthless. The guy paid back his funds and apologized years ago, can’t we just move on? Far worse people exist in the world than somebody who delayed donating to a charity. People learn from hard life lessons such as this, and there is no example at all that suggests Heath to be a repeat offender. You don’t have to forgive him, but quite honestly I think people who are still holding a grudge over this years later are just being petty.

As for the project being off better off without him, just remember that this project wouldnt exist without Heath’s design. Nobody deserves to steal this man’s designs, regardless of his past. Imo this project is without a doubt better off including the original designer, instead of ignoring him because he isnt popular. I respect it more because it is now a project that is clearing up a fiasco that is clearly not entirely resolved in the yoyo community. Vader vs Skywalker, the irony in the naming is rich.


#73

“delayed donating”??? No, he tried to NEVER donate it. He only donated when his actions were brought to light and several members of the community questioned his actions.

“can’t we just move on?” nope. this isn’t the sort of action that can be looked over.

“far worse people exist in the world” this is the yoyo community, not the entire world. relative to this community, his actions are a stain on our reputation. relative to this community, his actions are absolutely horrendous.

“no example that suggests heath to be a repeat offender” the charity incident was the finale in a long string of poor business. had he never been called out on it, there is an excellent chance he would’ve continued to do what he did. I do not understand why anyone would want to see him have another chance.


#74

@vegabomb https://web.archive.org/web/*/yoyonation.com then click on the snapshot of different dates.


#75

This is just an opinion, not objective fact. Maybe his original plan was to collect all of the money and then donating one lump sum? But before he could do that, he got called out, and at that point there is really nothing he could say since he made the mistake of saying he already started donating.

Nobody was harmed, hurt, or killed. In the end things got resolved. This is a stereotypical “just get over it” situation.

Literally nobody outside of a small faction of the yoyo community even knows this happened. Stop acting like the yoyo community is literally holy and free from human fallibility.

An unfounded and entirely emotional response to a one time event. It is also an assumption that he never would have paid it back if not confronted. Im not saying he would have, but in reality he did.

I want to see him have another chance because he made up for his past mistakes and apologized for it. Some people in this world are blatant scammers, and this entire incident reeks of ‘good intentions gone wrong’ rather than being one of pure exploitation. He wasn’t innocent, but I think the outrage was a bit hyperbolic considering the offense and how quickly a resolution came about. People still got their yoyos, and a charity got its donations. People like you are too emotional about this to even consider that he may have had a plan to pay the charity back without having to take out a loan to save face. Sorry if you think im wrong for thinking he deserves a second chance.


(From the cranky old folks home) #76

To all of the folks that think the reaction of some of the people here is unfounded, let’s just say you had to be there. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:


#77

You are clearly missing the amount of time between the time donations being accepted by Heath and the time he actually donated them to charity. He had plenty of time to fix the situation before being confronted. It’s called taking out a loan to repay what you took. And if that means taking a hit on your credit score, so be it. I’d say that’s the least he deserved out of this situation, which he could have been charged for in a court of law. He even lied in his apologies, and wasn’t completely honest or forthcoming until he was repeatedly badgered about it.

Stop defending horrible actions. He didn’t make up for his actions on his own terms. You saying he would’ve repaid the donations regardless of being confronted is just as much or more of an opinion than anything I’ve said.

“Nobody was harmed, hurt, or killed” because these are the only ways to measure wrongdoing.


#78

I’m done posting in this topic. I’ve made my point. Understand the perspective of the people who were around when this happened and ask yourself what makes us so adamantly against this. Our concerns are not unfounded.


#79

My “leave forever” plan was defeated by the fact that I’m bad at software settings and got a ton of emails on this thread so while I’m here to turn those off and actually log out:

Auctions definitely started earlier, I believe they were auctions on the YYN forum. I have a PayPal receipt from June of 2011 for a works 4XL I bought.

It was generally accepted in 2012 (and not countered by Heath at the time) that the money went to things like Heath’s YYR collection and laser tag guns. The “poor me, I needed to fly my team to Worlds” story didn’t start until 2016. Even accepting that, it means that Heath was sitting on a fair amount of charity money for over a year that was then used irresponsibly. I don’t know if anyone can prove the intent to commit fraud so lets go with major negligence at best here. Either way, my guess is Heath’s money and Vs. Newton’s money weren’t segregated well so it’s kind of all grouped together.

C’mon man, you can seriously read the 2012 threads and think that Heath was about to make good on his own? Really? I have some stock in a blood testing startup in Palo Alto that just needs to work out some technology kinks to hit it big if you believe this.

Honestly, as a business owner you had your shot to earn forgiveness if you had made a direct apology and made good when the issues were first brought to light in 2012. Being evasive and dishonest then disqualifies you forever in my eyes. As an individual, you do you.

Because this forum has turned into a party celebrating someone I don’t particularly like or want to spend time with? I could be annoyed and a jerk constantly or I could just show myself to the door. I’m picking b.

I also think splitting this line off of the original topic is disingenuous. This project is intentionally tied to one of the biggest dumpster fires in yo-yo history and I think people should consider if they want to spend their (presumably finite) yo-yo money on this vs. supporting one of many fine yo-yo companies who don’t have these major red flags in their past.

kthxbye


#80

Yea maybe. Im just a little surprised to see this amount of butthurt STILL years after the guy paid the charity the money due and openly apologized for it. Leaving the forum over it too? lmao