Very kind, thank you. I feel like you’re giving me too much credit though, I very much stand on the shoulders of the giants that came before me.
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idk if it’s flaming. @fatguysnacks247 and I have little bit of a history (that my big mouth started) and we’re working it out by having these debates. His point of view is a valid one, innovation is important. Big steps forward are great but I was just pointing out that I also think small steps are important too. No hard feelings here
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thank you @chaosgow, and i thinks that’s spot on. i also believe this discourse helped me resolve some of my prior judgements due to the fallout. your isaac newton quote a moment ago, my personal hero, genius, and master of innovation - spoke volumes. beef squashed on my end… until next time 
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Peaceful resolution?!?!?!? Bah! Not on TEH INTEWEBZ!!!
You’re both wrong, each of you said to me in pm’s that the other one’s mother was ugly, and both of you think the other guys smells like too much AXE body spray.
GO!
Seriously, though. Glad to see two good men working things out through discourse. Well done, gentlemen!
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hey, my ma is ugly… however, SHE wears too much AXE body spray…
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Well, here is a Quote from Eckhart ‘Mo’ >
“Stay present, breath deeper more often, oxygen is your friend”
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Not at all, the community needs you and other similarly passionate folks on this forum that constantly improve on previous designs and manufacturing standards. If you hold yourself to a high standard, other companies do too and we all get better yoyos. That’s good news to me!
BTW in case anyone’s mom may find this helpful: Robot or human?
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Maybe it’s just me but I’ve had a good cross section of the yoyos from these companies, as well as Dif-E-Yo and a few others that felt very smooth to me. No noticeable vibe in any of them.
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As do I, and I very much enjoy them. I was not implying that there was vibe in these yoyos. I also still enjoy my old hybrid yoyojams which often have some vibe, it does not bother me, in fact it helps me feel what the yoyo is doing. As others have pointed out, these classics sell faster on the BST than even the hottest new thing, often at prices well beyond their original retail.
My observation was that one does not usually shut down a vibrant profitable business. In the end, the yoyo business is still a business, and the vibe obsession is counter productive in terms of product cost, profit margin and business viability. It may not even deliver the best possible products, just the most vibe free products. It seems odd to me that our community has chosen vibe, even trivial vibe which has no impact on the performance of a yoyo, as a factor of uttermost importance.
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I don’t really see it as something that is hurting the community.
We all have our preferences however I do believe that strong concern over vibe is something newer players can obsess over especially with watching certain yoyo reviewers on youtube.
For the record I agree that when you spend a lot of money on a yoyo it sure as heck better be of very high quality!
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Team no vibe here. But overall I think more ppl are happy when I have glitches to sell with a minor vibe.
I think it’s a bigger deal on the BST because some sellers will understate the vibe to get a higher sale price.
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How much do you discount for vibe? Maybe we can put a price on this obsession…i bet the price isn’t worth the obsession.
After reading this thread i think most people throwing for more then a year realize minor vibe isn’t a big deal.
Having said this i do appreciate a G2 smooth as glass throw and i thank you.
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Usually 25-30%
I agree with this point! Being that there is no real quantifiable measure to the amount of vibe I always tend to be a bit more reluctant to pay a premium for a yoyo listed with vibe. When it comes to new yoyos I would prefer a yoyo to have minimal to no vibe. From a playing perspective… well I still play with my yoyojams almost daily so I guess I look past vibe quite a lot.
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Lots in this. As this came out of the Bi shutter review I will treat this as one reply for both topics.
History lesson: before grinds, people never interacted with a yo-yo and their body. No-one cared. I guess when you walked the dog it would bounce more but that was kinda cool.
Enter the grind, bye bye Buzzon. Literally.
Oxy was smooth (if you got a good one) all early 888s were smooth. People appreciated it.
Then we saw ppl getting hyped on YoYos that just were not smooth. Cool colors were more important.
Even the BST the ppls barometer for cool as expressed by resale said a CLYW in a rare color was more important than something tested smooth.
We watched and noted.
You need to pick your market. Collectors, resellers, the most ocd, made in USA loyalist, everyday player, elite competitor? Who are you making product for?
And then you deliver product for that segment.
Try to deliver product to multiple segments, as we do, it’s kinda tough to communicate everything to everyone and relying on word of mouth through message boards like this and the disinformation will kill you every time.
Predominantly we make YoYos for people who do tricks, who enjoy playing with them. We start making the best YoYos to learn on, from day one, then we provide great options all the way up. We make some great value product, we make some insanely high tolerance product. We manufacture domestically we use all the materials. We sell a lot of yoyos we accept there is a range in performance. If you go buy 2 mustangs one will be faster. Two Ferrari same deal. Two YoYos… yup you guessed it. We don’t promote this fact nor do other brands. No matter how boutique there is variance. In terms of precision a yo-yo with visible vibe still likely meets all aerospace and most military guidelines for precision. So don’t come at me with ‘these aren’t precision machined’ because we went beyond that like a decade ago. Shutter Bi is beast. It’s wide, predominantly rim weighted, all parts are within the highest standards of measurement and testing. Throw it all together… it’s a crap shot! They are all over the place. So we test and built and balance and test. We do our best to get it right. Every brand delivering smooth YoYos does it, if they don’t they are either making very safe designs or they just don’t know the person making their YoYos is doing this.
At this stage human error comes into play too. All the parts measured precise .00(very low) there is something still going on. It’s not bad design, or low precision… it could be variance in density in the 4 metal parts or a spec of dust under the bearing but now we are in hunan error stage as testing is done by a person. 100% inspection is about 95% right. This is a fact of life and why even the most boutique small run manufacturers still get the occasional yoyo thru. I play everything. I know what’s going on.
Back to the original poster in the review. I love this review. It is fair balanced, gives great feedback and he shows reasonable expectations. Be guaranteed I’m going to find him his 85%+ yoyo. That’s not an unreasonable request.
For 100%… some of our smoothest runs didn’t sell through. Hype, cool colors and trends do. Go figure!
For really smooth yoyofactory product try any of the Ultras including BLADE. They were amazing… and no one really cared.
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Thanks @yyfben2.deactivated my DNA Ultra is still one of my smoothest throws.
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lol and I don’t like the Earth either
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Exactly. It’s highly unreasonable to ask for a hype colorway with zero cosmetic imperfections and 100% dead smooth. I’ve only returned one yoyo for vibe and it was because the thing wobbled from side to side to the point that it was unusable. If vibe is a massive deal to you, there’s yoyos that are 100% smooth. If hype is what you want, a yoyo with slight visible vibe should not be an issue. If you’re a high level competitor, neither should really matter as long as the yoyo can get through all your tricks with relative ease. Like come on people. Just try to tune it out if it bothers you but don’t bitch about it to the internet or the retailer.
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I’ve said for a while that the best yoyos don’t sell, the coolest ones do. There’s probably some overlap but do you think it’s accurate? I guess best is completely subjective, I don’t even truly know what I mean when I say it.
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