Titanium: on the rise or fading out?

So I’m wondering what the general feeling is regarding the popularity of titanium yoyos right now. If you look at the titanium models listed in the YYE webstore, fewer than half of them are currently available for purchase.

Does this indicate that they are so popular that manufacturers can’t keep them in stock? Or does it indicate that their popularity has faded and manufacturers have no incentive to keep them in stock?

Secondarily, out of the seven models currently available, which one would be most highly recommended for sleep time and stability (rather than nimbleness)?

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I think the reason you don’t see very much titanium in stock is because it’s a little bit pricier. You either have to have money burning a hole in your pocket, or be really dedicated to this hobby to drop that kind of money on a new yoyo. It is a niche market inside a niche market. There just doesn’t seem to be a super high demand for them

And I cannot make any recommendations, because I do not own any titanium yo-yos nor have I played any.

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Manufacturers of high end yoyos generally make a small run of the product, and may or may not make a repeat run even if the first run sold out quickly. smileypants707 is spot on regarding the cost/demand issue.

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Can anyone name a competitor who won a national contest in the US or Japan (picking the biggest two countries for yo-yo contests) using a titanium yo-yo … ever?

This is another reason why I feel titanium is so niche. Even the very top players don’t view it as essential.

(It does make very cool sounds in play, I will say that. So if you’re into ASMR you might want one heh)

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I think magnesium is better myself but man do I love my Ti.

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Good bimetals generally perform better than the best titanium monometals so that’s why you don’t really see them. There was a YYR member that used the Dazzler a few years back but that’s all I know of.

You would have to make a TISS to outperform an Al+SS bimetal but at that point you’re spending $500+ on each yoyo, which should be how much you’re spending on a competition SET so it’s just not worth it, especially since the improvement is super marginal.

When MYY made a 7075+SS for $50 I had high hopes that they’d eventually make a sub $150 titanium and sub $250 TISS but that never ended up happening sadly.

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That’s odd, because titanium is so strong and can be made so thin that you’d think they could put the weight exactly where they want it on the yo-yo, moreso than with aluminum which can’t be made too thin or it’ll get brittle / break.

I’m not sure I even agree that bimetals always perform better, because even with aluminum modern machining and modern al (7075) should be strong enough to put the weight wherever you want it?

With steel it just makes it easier to really isolate a ton of the weight right at the rims. With a bimetal you can make the whole body really thin and just clip bimetal rings right at the edge of the rims. With a monometal design you’d have to ease into the rim weight, you can’t just make the catch zone super thin then all of a sudden make the rims at the edge huge.

Sure you can, it’s a super common design element. Look at the cadence:

image

mega chunky rims – see it all the time in many yo-yos

@zslane You’re really missing out if you aren’t trying to take advantage of Ti for it’s nimbleness. Stability is easy and you don’t need Ti to do it

Yeah but notice how those rims take up more space. A lot less space would be taken with steel rings, and because of that the rim weight can just be put right at the edge taking up less space than just using a monometal would.

Same thing with 6061. You can just pack all the weight at the rims. But why does steel rings make a 6061 yoyo better? The steel rings aren’t making the 6061’s walls any thinner, it’s just more weight is able to be concentrated right at the edge without taking up as much space. It’s a denser, higher concentration of rim weight.

Also, I agree with Rosenberg. Ti throws aren’t really made to outperform bimetals anyway.

Right but that’s aesthetics more than anything else. “xtra chunky rims” don’t affect how you play with the yo-yo or how it performs. If the weight is in the correct place, it will perform identically.

I guess we can agree to disagree :wink:

Imo a lot of bimetals don’t take full potential of it being a bimetal while more and more 7075 yoyos are taking the full potential of the material which I guess can lead to the illusion that monometals really can completely perform as well as bimetals. However, I undoubtedly believe a properly made bimetal is more powerful, more stable, and longer spinning than any monometal.

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Yes, last line is absolutely true.

One of the biggest challenges with a design is going to be putting the weight where you want it, though. It impacts some shapes & weight distributions more than others, and of course there are other design constraints you may have.

Here are some CAD sketches that hopefully illustrate what I mean.

Full disclosure: These were pretty quick and I haven’t actually had any designs prototyped. But hopefully the numbers can tell a story.

The constraint of where you can put weight is most severe for V-ish yoyos with small rims. Let’s say you want it to sort of look like this, with as much rim weight as you can manage, and ~63-64g assembled:
2018-08-03%2020_14_49-Window

In 7075 Al, if you want to get it up to ~60g unassembled without changing the catch zone, you have to bring the rim down into the cup pretty far. This rim is > 7mm thick around the edge:
2018-08-03%2021_53_40-Window

As a side effect, the rim-weightedness is decreased somewhat. Take note of the mass moment of inertia around Ixx: 14,050 g mm^2.

Meanwhile, in a 7075+SS design:
2018-08-03%2020_27_13-Window
2018-08-03%2020_28_38-Window

15g SS ring, 10,930 g mm^2
14.82g Al cup, 5227 g mm^2

~60g total mass, 16,157 g mm^2. That’s appreciably higher than the mono-metal version, which had to put some of the material closer to the axle. This doesn’t mean it’s better (you’d have to prototype it!) but it’s different, and not something you can achieve with this same design in monometal.

For O-shapes and other shapes with broad rims it’s a lot easier to push weight out to the edge, of course. I think this is one of the reasons why you see inverse-round designs that have a broad-ish rounded rim after the inverse part.

Another consideration is that titanium (as noted earlier) is ~2x the density of 7075, which makes it better for pushing weight around in a monometal, and 6061 is less dense, which makes it more difficult to push weight around.

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Mark basically explained what I was trying to get at a lot better haha. I had the pictures he had drawn out in my head but i don’t know how to use cad and I couldn’t draw it out in the post obviously and I wasn’t sure how to exactly explain it in words.

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They come in waves, really. So I wouldn’t say on the rise or fading out unless we’re approaching another titanium trend.

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You wouldn’t be willing to make a video recording this sound, would you?

It’s uh, for a friend…

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You can hear the sound pretty clearly on the ‘Gentry Stein first try Titanium Dream’ video on youtube, I think…

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Woah, that sounds so… Titaniumie

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