the issues between duncan and yoyofactory (leads to a question).

5A was born when steve brown of duncan invented “freehand”
external bearings, or hubstacks, were born with yoyofactory.
because of the counterweight patent, yyf has stopped sponsering some major yoyo contests.

i know yyf has some 5a players (tyler severance) but they cant make counterweights.

how did duncan get allowed to use z stacks for the momentum? i mean duncan was so strict with the 5A patent!

tell me if im wrong here, but i think yyf should have sued duncan for that (well im not sure if the momentum was lincensed by yyf)

please correct me for anything i messed up on.

didn’t the momentum predate YYF’s patent of hubstacks? I’m not sure on this one though.

Yoyofactory did not completely patent the use of hubstacks on yoyos, but rather how the hubstacks were put on. They patented the use of the oring to hold the bearing on the post, and how the hubstack itself was shaped, which is the large hole allowing access to the bearing for easier removal. The stacks on the Momentum are different. Instead of using orings to hold in the bearing, they used a simple screw. This was the best pic I could get
Compared to the Yoyofactory hubstacks Yoyofactory hubstacks are more popular because they can be removed easier, and Yoyofactory had not come up with the idea of hubstacks, they just improved upon it.

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Yeah as long as the “stacks” don’t use an O-ring, anyone can make them…
Onedrop has spinning side effects that are attached through their axle system.

I’d wonder if yyf could finance a legal case against Duncan anyway. When your competition can afford to throw your entire net worth back at in you in lawyers alone, it can be tough to enforce anything. You would have to be sure the effort was worth it.

YYF still contributes to contests a ton even when not sponsoring simply by having a team so large that their entry fees alone can usually merit a small sponsorship.

they also had THE BEST video coverage of WYYC 2011, and had TONS of players competing (no, literally, im fairly sure that the players combined weights = >4000lbs) despite not “sponsoring”

their stance has valid points IMO. i just wish the two companies could settle it already. 5A is dying in the time its taking to settle this.

I’m with Heath. YYF has got their name so much that they don’t need a name on a banner to know that they’re there. They spend their money on the contest team which is, IMO, much better than the said name on a banner.

We can’t do anything about the whole 5A [and the stacks] dispute and quite frankly, it’s not our problem.

I agree and pointed out that same fact about YYF and sponsorship. They have a big enough team and brand recognition, it makes more economic sense to let the T-shirts, press, appearance and performance speak for them. Money on a banner is buying eye-time and easily forgotten and possibly just money that goes to the contest only, which does help with prize money. Money spent on getting players there, put up and equipped seems a far better investment to me, at least from a “corporate” point of view.

At the moment, there isn’t much we can do about the 5A patent and hubstacks. There’s more than 1 way to secure a stack and bearing in place, so there are easy work-arounds. The 5A thing, patenting a style of play and counterweights, well, that’s going to always be controversial. Not our problem? No, it’s becoming our problem. It’s already a problem. The problem is only getting worse.

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Well if you insist on making it a problem [when both parties agreed on not pushing it to the edge that will end in legal action], then do so. But I think it’s just ridiculous how the average joe [err…yoyoer] is considering this a ‘problem’ when the companies decide to focus on something else instead.

I don’t play 5A, and I don’t plan on making it my secondary style [2A is my focus] so at least for me it’s none of my concern. And in extension, I don’t play with stacks anyway so that’s out of the question for me too.

It’s long been settled. As a matter of fact it was settled as soon as it happened. As for 5A dying, we began licensing the patent around 2 years ago and are open to licensing the patent to any manufacturer that is interested. Whether a company decides to do so or not is up to said company.

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With that being said…


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A couple of people “reported” this for being locked, believing it needs to be open for further discussion. It’s been discussed numerous times over the last couple of years on all of the forums. The manufacturers know full well the pros and cons and “community” feelings discussed in those venues. Whether or not you accept the patent is immaterial. It exists.