Does Duncan control 5a??!!


#1

I was looking at buying the yoyojam legacy, and it said that Duncan has “officially licensed it for 5a”. I looked more into this and apparently if you want to make a yoyo video to make money you have to contact Duncan before doing 5a, or just use a Duncan yoyo to do the 5a.
Is it just me, or since when has Duncan been the yoyo police?


#2

I’ve have heard that duncan has control of the term “5A”, and as much as I love duncan, it seems a bit overpowered on their part.(sorry duncan)


#3

thats because duncan invented the yoyo and “freehand” or counterweight style (5a). because duncan wants to make a large profit, they patented the 5A style of yoyoing! eventually it will expire, like the the patent for the original yoyo ( will take very long time) still think duncan is awesome though!


#4

I believe Duncan owns the patent for having yoyos with counterweights, therefore are typically the only ones who can sell yoyos with counterweights included. The term “Freehand” is owned by Duncan while 5A, or counterweight play appears to be the generic terminology of it, my understanding of it. None of us who slip a dice or whatever onto another yoyo and play it are not violating any rights.

My guess is that Duncan was willing to let a fellow yoyo company (being YYJ) sell a yoyo that would be great for counterweight play with a counterweight.


#5

I’m not sure all the details, but it’s something like this:

Yes, Duncan has the rights to 5A play. Anyone can use any yoyo and any object for a CW without having to worry about anything.

What it does do is limit anyone from selling a counterweight and/or packaging a counterweight with a yoyo without licensing permissions obtained from Duncan. Duncan isn’t being selective about this, they’ll work with and talk to anyone about making the licensing deals happen. There are also limitations as to which territories are covered by the patent as well.

5A players have nothing to worry about. It’s only an issue to those making product. In an example, YYJ has stepped up and bit the proverbial bullet and is paying some sort of fees for the Takeshi dice(that Duncan probably had nothing to do with the development of), the Destiny(which is packaged with a Takeshi Dice, and Duncan had nothing to do with the yoyo design) and the Pinnacle, which like the Destiny, Duncan had nothing to do with the design of, but the included CW appears to be a Duncan dice.


#6

Duncan only owns the patent on yoyos with counterweights. You can do anything you want with 5A style play.


#7

I think it kinda does have superiority because Steve Brown, the guy who created 5A was on Duncan at the time, I think.


#8

Patents are patents. Whether you like it or not, the patent holder has every right to enforce and control it. But the question is…how will you make revenue over a video? I doubt that you’re a YouTube partner.

Let’s just say that Duncan has only gotten tougher with their patent recently.

Anyway, most of the stuff posted here have lots of speculating going on. Including this post of mine.


#9

If Magic Yo Yo from China decides to put a cubed piece of plastic with a hole in it with there next yoyo I doubt there wuld be anything Duncan could do about it.

It surprises me that they could patent something so simple as a dice with a hole in it tied to the end of a yoyo string, but I guess thats is what big lawyers do.

I tried 5A for about 30 min and from what I can tell gravity controls 5A ;D


#10

Steve Brown held the patent and sold his rights when he left Duncan. And if Magic YoYos made a yoyo that came with a counterweight it would have to be removed from the packaging to be sold here in the US. Same as with yoyos that come with knock off KK bearings


#11

http://www.yo-yo.com/Temp/DuncanToysCounterweightPlayQA.pdf


#12

Wherever U.S. patents are not enforced, companies can sell them. I think they only control it in the U.S. and Canada.


(Zammy Ickler ) #13

As repeated before hand, Duncan owns the copyright to the term freehand, the application of the counterweight to the string and the style by itself. Here in the states, companies can not sell their products with a CW technically are team members of rival companies suppose to make clip videos doing 5a and posting them online. This is why by example Onedrop does not have any 5a players on the team.

~Z


#14

Germany, too…or so what I can recall from that lengthy 5A discussion at the other site years ago.

But speaking of patents, I quite don’t get however… Iskandar Shah’s new brand, Diamont Noir, is a licensee of the patent. But the company is based in Singapore - out of reach from Duncan’s enforcement of the patent. I kinda don’t understand why they even need to do that. [speculation] maybe they’re planning on selling those with counterweight packs on US stores in the future? I don’t know… [/ spectulation]

And Zammy, Steve Brown has stated at the other site that Duncan does not hold the rights for the term ‘freehand’


#15

Actually, through trademark, as a MODEL/yoyo name, Duncan does in fact hold the term “freehand”. So, while the 5A style can be called freehand, nobody else can make a yoyo called “Freehand” or have “freehand” as part of the name.


#16

The patent also covers 5a as a term in yoyoing. So they got that to.


#17

Considering the patent pre-dates the term “5A” I highly doubt that.


#18

Don’t get me wrong, I love Duncan, but I don’t think it’s very fair. I know they want to make a profit and business is business, but I would love to see what other companies could bring to the table. There could be some new cool counter weights. There would also be more 5A players getting sponsered and I think 5A would pick up.

I tried 5A but I’m just not too good at it. I love watching it though.


#19

Wait until 2020 when the patent expires then it’ll be all good.


(WildCat23) #20

You can patent pretty much anything. You could probably patent a rock tied to the end of a string that you swing around and do tricks with as long as you call it something creative. There are patents on body parts, I mean come on! Our patent office is screwed up.